Turns Out the US is Stingy After All

[Mr Manifesto]

After Bush was humiliated into upping the foreign aid dollars for the tsunami victims, the don't-you-go-dissin'-my-prez crowd responded with, "Oh yeah? Well the funding doesn't take into account how much private citizens are donating! I bet that shows Americans aren't stingy!"

No it doesn't

Australia 0.26 Permille of GNP
USA 0.059

Not a good look, America.

So, all of you, and all of your friends with deep pockets and short arms, DIG IN! Get someone to reach in for you if it hurts you so much. So many Americans claim they want what's best for the rest of the world, and when they have the chance to prove it they come up short.

Heck, I donated a hundred and that's six months wages for me. surely six or seven of you can get together and come up with a similar amount?

 

[NoZed Avenger]

After Bush was humiliated into upping the foreign aid dollars for the tsunami victims [snip diatribe]

Putting aside the factual problems with your post -- such as the way aid is calculated for those studies, the fact that military support such as that being provided even today is excluded, or the baseless claim that the country was "humiliated" into giving more when every country gave initial pledges that have almost uniformly grown as this has developed -- putting all that aside for the moment -- I have to say that using the corpses of over a hundred thousand people and the displacement of millions more to score what you hope is a cheap political point is beneath contempt.

From now on, whenever I write a post that cheers Australians, please bear in mind that I am specifically excluding the Crocodile Hunter. And you.

 

[rikzilla]

In FY 1998 (the latest complete data on the CIA world-factbook) Sri Lanka spent $500 million on defense. A figure that alone could have created a tsunami warning system for the entire region.

Indonesia? They spent $1.7 Billion on fighter jets and high tech warships. One less fighter jet would have more than payed for a tsunami warning system for the entire region.

India? They spent $14 Billion...of course they at least are in a constant state of warm war with Pakistan...and yet....



The US...stingy? Not stingy?? What does it matter? A little forsight from any of the above mentioned nations could have saved the lives of tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands by the time the final toll is known.

And as far as US stinginess is concerned...why not wait till the final numbers are in (including US military costs)?? After all, we know how wrong those early exit-poll numbers are....don't we?

-z

Edited to add: Thailand @ $1.7 Billion...but who's counting??

 

[Bruce]

Re: Re: Turns Out the US is Stingy After All

From now on, whenever I write a post that cheers Australians, please bear in mind that I am specifically excluding the Crocodile Hunter. And you.

I would humbly request that you include Mel Gibson in your exclusion list. I'm not a big fan of Nicole Kidman, either.

 

[Kerberos]

Re: Re: Re: Turns Out the US is Stingy After All

I would humbly request that you include Mel Gibson in your exclusion list. I'm not a big fan of Nicole Kidman, either.

What has Nicole Kidman done? Not that I'm a big fan or anything, I'm just curious.

 

[Bruce]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Turns Out the US is Stingy After All

What has Nicole Kidman done?

Tom Cruise.

 

[Hutch]

In FY 1998 (the latest complete data on the CIA world-factbook) Sri Lanka spent $500 million on defense. A figure that alone could have created a tsunami warning system for the entire region.

Indonesia? They spent $1.7 Billion on fighter jets and high tech warships. One less fighter jet would have more than payed for a tsunami warning system for the entire region.

India? They spent $14 Billion...of course they at least are in a constant state of warm war with Pakistan...and yet....



The US...stingy? Not stingy?? What does it matter? A little forsight from any of the above mentioned nations could have saved the lives of tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands by the time the final toll is known.

And as far as US stinginess is concerned...why not wait till the final numbers are in (including US military costs)?? After all, we know how wrong those early exit-poll numbers are....don't we?

-z

Edited to add: Thailand @ $1.7 Billion...but who's counting??

Not only a pretty sorry strawman, but you left yourself wide open for a counter, in effect:

Thailand--65,000,000 population, $1.7B defense budget, or about $26 per person.

India--1,075,000,000 population, $14B defense budget, or about $14 per person.

Indonesia--241,000,000 population, $1.7B for Aircraft/Ships or about $7 per person. (which if you're a country of about 2,000 islands just might make sense--IMHO as always)

Sri Lanka--20,000,000 population, $500M defense budget, or about $25 per person (while fighting a fairly major Civil War)

United States--289,000,000 population, $396B defense budget (with alot of the Iraq/Afghanistan not included) or $1,370 per person.

Wonder about all the good we could have done with all that money.....


Jeez, that was dumb, and while I don't think you are dumb, rik, you have made a few posts recently that make me wonder....

 

[Jocko]

After Bush was humiliated into upping the foreign aid dollars for the tsunami victims, the don't-you-go-dissin'-my-prez crowd responded with, "Oh yeah? Well the funding doesn't take into account how much private citizens are donating! I bet that shows Americans aren't stingy!"

A lot of inferences and supposition in there. How about this: Australia is only being generous with aid to prevent refugees from reaching their white, sandy beaches. Everyone knows that. So let's accept that as truth along with all your other bullsh!t here.

Not a good look, America.

Well, not everyone can pull of the Paul Hogan crocodile-skin vest look.

So, all of you, and all of your friends with deep pockets and short arms, DIG IN! Get someone to reach in for you if it hurts you so much. So many Americans claim they want what's best for the rest of the world, and when they have the chance to prove it they come up short.

Says you, you refugee-phobic racist. Everyone knows it. It's the truth, a fact, a positive reality beyond questioning.

Heck, I donated a hundred and that's six months wages for me. surely six or seven of you can get together and come up with a similar amount?

$100 Australian? Six months' wages? You're overpaid, Manifesto.

This parsing of the numbers by any means necessary to prove American stinginess is the saddest thing since I saw you and other bozos trying to convince someone - ANYONE - that 3.5 million votes was statistically insignificant in the November election. You were wrong then, you are wrong now and the signs all indicate you'll be wrong tomorrow.

 

[Tricky]

Hey! Where was the "rest of the world" when the US needed them to help us launch an unprovoked attack on Iraq? Maybe they'll think twice before refusing to join our little forays next time.

Seriously though, I think it is quite likely that there is an undercurrent of resentment in the US against "foreigners", especially those in non-Christian countries. It is disappointing, but not terribly surprising that they might be somewhat less generous than they normally are to such causes.

Also, you gotta remember our economy ain't what it wuz four years ago...

 

[HarryKeogh]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/05/opinion/05kris.html?oref=login

Americans give 15 cents per day per person in official development assistance to poor countries.

In 2003, the latest year for which figures are available, we increased such assistance by one-fifth, for President Bush has actually been much better about helping poor countries than President Clinton was. But as a share of our economy, our contribution still left us ranked dead last among 22 top donor countries.

We gave 15 cents for every $100 of national income to poor countries. Denmark gave 84 cents, the Netherlands gave 80 cents, Belgium gave 60 cents, France gave 41 cents, and Greece gave 21 cents (that was the lowest share, beside our own).

It is sometimes said that Americans make up for low official aid with private charitable donations. Nope. By OECD calculations, private donations add 6 cents a day to the official U.S. figure - meaning that we still give only 21 cents a day per person.

 

[TragicMonkey]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/05/opinion/05kris.html?oref=login

Americans give 15 cents per day per person in official development assistance to poor countries.

In 2003, the latest year for which figures are available, we increased such assistance by one-fifth, for President Bush has actually been much better about helping poor countries than President Clinton was. But as a share of our economy, our contribution still left us ranked dead last among 22 top donor countries.

We gave 15 cents for every $100 of national income to poor countries. Denmark gave 84 cents, the Netherlands gave 80 cents, Belgium gave 60 cents, France gave 41 cents, and Greece gave 21 cents (that was the lowest share, beside our own).

It is sometimes said that Americans make up for low official aid with private charitable donations. Nope. By OECD calculations, private donations add 6 cents a day to the official U.S. figure - meaning that we still give only 21 cents a day per person.

And yet I'm still struggling to pay my bills. I'm getting a little tired of people telling me how stingy I am. Perhaps not all Americans are wealthy, laughing at tsunami victims while sipping caviar-flavored champagne while sitting on the terrace of their magnificent Beverly Hills mansion?

 

[Jocko]

And yet I'm still struggling to pay my bills. I'm getting a little tired of people telling me how stingy I am. Perhaps not all Americans are wealthy, laughing at tsunami victims while sipping caviar-flavored champagne while sitting on the terrace of their magnificent Beverly Hills mansion?

If I could, I would... if only to give Manifesto fits.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Hmmm........
I won't whine about my own struggles in life, but I didn't think charity was a horse race. The idea is to help as much as you want/can. It's not about who paid what according to some numbers ( % GNP?, Real $$?) on a balance sheet. On Sept.12 2001 we were all Americans, on 12/29/04 we are all orphans and homeless and hungry. People all around the world are grieving and being generous.

Christ I thought I was cynical.

 

[Ladyhawk]

(Sigh) It's a numbers game. Depending on whose figures you believe...

Americans contribute less per person but has 290+million people so, even at .15 cents, it's a sizeable figure. But, so say our critics, it could be better...it should be better....why aren't Americans contributing to their potential...yada, yada....

Quite as its kept, a lot of Americans have lost their jobs to outsourcing recently and major corporations are laying off in the thousands. Like the Monkey says, many Americans are having a tough time paying their bills...

Yet, we still contribute. And I don't doubt that Tricky's statement is a little closer to the truth than many would like to admit.

So, what is the acceptable percentage, friends? .50 cents, $1, $5 per person....what?

Personally, I don't believe there is any magic number that the US could produce that would earn one nod of respect from any of our critics. As TM so aptly observed, we would inevitably be accused of having some hidden agenda, anyway.

 

[Jocko]

(Sigh) It's a numbers game. Depending on whose figures you believe...

Americans contribute less per person but has 290+million people so, even at .15 cents, it's a sizeable figure. But, so say our critics, it could be better...it should be better....why aren't Americans contributing to their potential...yada, yada....

Quite as its kept, a lot of Americans have lost their jobs to outsourcing recently and major corporations are laying off in the thousands. Like the Monkey says, many Americans are having a tough time paying their bills...

Yet, we still contribute. And I don't doubt that Tricky's statement is a little closer to the truth than many would like to admit.

So, what is the acceptable percentage, friends? .50 cents, $1, $5 per person....what?

Personally, I don't believe there is any magic number that the US could produce that would earn one nod of respect from any of our critics. As TM so aptly observed, we would inevitably be accused of having some hidden agenda, anyway.

Right on the money (pun intended). Some time ago I was engaged in a debate here about why the rest of the world measures generosity (particularly American generosity) by how much it COSTS, but never considered measuring it by how much it GAVE.

In other words, if our 21 cents a day adds up to ten times an Austrialians 30 cents a day when taken in toto, why does it matter to anyone at all how much it COSTS when we're still GIVING more?

Of course I found the answer when schmucks like Manifesto slathered on the white liberal guilt enough. I learned that he honestly believes charity's main function is not to aid the needy, but to handicap the wealthy.

Considering he just admitted he earns only $200 Australian a year, or less than a single welfare recipient gets monthly here in the States, I think I understand his position of envy and the resultant pissiness.

EDITED TO TAUNT: Pssst..... Manifesto.... I was earning $20k a year working part time while I was in school. And that's late 1980's dollars, too. Apparently your career aspirations match your academic aspirations.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Re: Re: Re: Turns Out the US is Stingy After All

I would humbly request that you include Mel Gibson in your exclusion list. I'm not a big fan of Nicole Kidman, either.

Considering that Mel was born in the US, I'd say you own him.

Rik, your arguments are just dumb. Please read this article carefully before commenting on this topic again. Specifically concentrate on the part that says how rare tsunamis are in the Indian Ocean region. By your reasoning, Siberia should have a meteor detection system in place because a big one hit in the 1900's.

NoZed Avenger, I'm afraid your comment about cheap political points is a little wide of the mark. I'm responding specifically to what individuals, in this forum and elsewhere, have said.

Originally posted by Larspeart
Quite frankly though, i find the UN's DEMAND for aid appalling on it's basest level. If we choose to help, so be it, but how dare a country DEMAND aid from another. You know... technically, a country is supposed to handle it's own affairs... the whole sovereignty and all...

If the government would stop taxing the crap out of us to do things like this, we as independant citizens could FAR better afford to provide direct support through private aid and charity groups (and VASTLY more efficiently too). Instead, the government has decided, without consulting with the american people whatsoever, to spend our money in a way THEY feel is appropriate.

Considering that Americans pay less tax than Australians, and that Australians paid three times as much per person than Americans in donations, this argument is pretty frickin' hollow.

Then we have Zenith Nadir's thread criticising Muslims for not donating enough, while overlooking his own back yard.

Then there was the caller to Rush Limbaugh who suggested that Americans need not donate anything because the rest of the world didn't donate money when the hurricanes hit Florida.

These are the things that hack me off, which is why I started this thread. Nothing to do with cheap political points.

 

[Skeptic]

Did anybody else ever notice that, when the US-haters consider the amount of money the US gives to charity / UN / NGOs / welfare / anything "good", they ALWAYS calculate it on a "per person" basis, with the undying hope that it will look small and insignificant...

...but when it comes to calculating the amount of money the US spends on arms / israel / Iraq / oil / aircraft carriers / anything "bad", they ALWAYS give you the aggregate sum, with the hope that it will look large and damning?

 

[HarryKeogh]

...but when it comes to calculating the amount of money the US spends on arms / israel / Iraq / oil / aircraft carriers / anything "bad", they ALWAYS give you the aggregate sum, with the hope that it will look large and damning?

as a sum total (400 billion) or per capita ($1370) what we spend on defense still looks large. unfortunately there's no way to spin those numbers to look any smaller.

 

[mr rosewater]

Meanwhile, tourist only lamp lit in Phuket, Thailand. Yes thats right the people of Phuket would like to remind all tourist they are open for business, electric is running and so is the water. This was a report on this mornings news complete with shots of frolicking tourist. Whats going on over there?

 

[Azrael 5]

George Bush

Presidents Clinton and Bush[senior] have been extremely generous in giving.....their free time in telling people how best to donate to this disaster!

Way to go George! Appparently(according to Sky News)he has given $10,000 of his own money! Dunno how wealthy the President is,but $10,000!!