Truthers and the FDNY

[johnny karate]

As we all know, it has proven very difficult for Truthers to come up with a plausible inside job scenario that doesn't in some way implicate the FDNY. And cunning devils they are, Truthers are usually very careful to avoid making any accusations (see: Jason Bermas and the "Jedi Mind Trick"). When cornered they will employ the typical Truther tactics of ignore and flee.

However, it is my belief that most Truthers want to accuse the FDNY and only avoid doing so because they know it will automatically hamstring any credibility or political currency they might have (see: Jason Bermas and the "Jedi Mind Trick"). Not to mention a fear of getting pummeled by outraged firefighters.

But like Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men, Truthers are absolutely brimming with a desire to say what they really feel, and resentment for not being able to do so. And sometimes they slip.

Below you will find quotes from some of the more prominent Truthers that post here that either imply or outright accuse the FDNY of complicity. I encourage others to post any more they may come across (here or on other forums) for posterity's sake.

I also encourage the Truthers in question to defend or clarify their remarks as in most cases they failed to do so in the original threads.

We'll start with an easy, if not entirely coherent, example from one of our newer members (bolding mine):

Thats because they are brainwashed by the media, just like you guys.

Prove it!!! that the FDNY whom are not bought by the gov., and have not been threatened for their lives, if they really believe the oficial story.

Next, Dictator Cheney tries to hedge his bets:

even when FDNY personal was involved, most of them was not. maybe a few know it.

roundhead, prior to wild back-pedaling and severe banning:

Major Mike McCormack a civil air patrol pilot, who was the one who found the US flag in the rubble, and became a toxic air whistleblower(and got harassed for his troubles)....


"McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

Is he a liar?

I stated they had been threatened, and posted a quote that supports my contention.

And finally, master of innuendo RedIbis makes no direct accusations, but certainly makes a very strong implication:

I don't doubt for a second that these firefighters came to agree with the official explanations "after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit."

My point from the get-go was what these people said before people came to them and told them the source of these events.

 

[TheWeirdSkeptic]

Is this thread a way for truthers to come and admit what they believe? Or are we just laughing at them for their belief that the governement can control such agencies with ease?.... again.

Just trieing to clear this up.

ETA: Agh ... reading comprehension was always my strong suite... I missed this sentence. My bad.

"I also encourage the Truthers in question to defend their remarks as in most cases they failed to do so in the original threads."

 

[johnny karate]

I mean for this thread to serve as a discussion starter. I have posited a theory and provided evidence to support it. I encourage anyone, Truther or otherwise, to voice their disagreement.

Secondarily, I also intend for this thread to serve as depository for accusations or implications of complicity Truthers have made against the FDNY here or elsewhere. The reasoning behind this is two-fold: it will serve as both a reference and a reminder.

 

[leonAzul]

It's a sad state of affairs that such a thread should be instantiated. I'm not judging you, JK, but rather the knob-brained idjuts who have failed, so completely, to wrap their prostates around the concept of a collapsed building, as if the only way a building could collapse were by controlled demolition.

FDNY, and many other fire departments, are credited with substantial materials research that answers all of the 'twoofer qwestions', and then some. Would that they (the 'twoofers') do the research.

When will the 'twoofers' learn that it is not a logical fallacy to appeal to competency and experience, versus blind faith authority?

How many roads can a man walk down--perhaps 42?

 

[TJM]

I mean for this thread to serve as a discussion starter. I have posited a theory and provided evidence to support it. I encourage anyone, Truther or otherwise, to voice their disagreement.

Secondarily, I also intend for this thread to serve as depository for accusations or implications of complicity Truthers have made against the FDNY here or elsewhere. The reasoning behind this is two-fold: it will serve as both a reference and a reminder.

Just entering "FDNY" into forum search reveals all manner of FDNY bashing, like this gem of a post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117719&highlight=Graeme+MacQueen

 

[abenja1]

It seems now truthers are trying to get the FDNY on their side. On Prison Planet there was one thread with some truther interviewing a fireman friend of his. But if you notice, during the birthing of the truther movement, they were implicating that the FDNY was involved in the coverup. Now it seems they realized what a FUBAR that was and are attempting to try get them on their side.

 

[johnny karate]

It seems now truthers are trying to get the FDNY on their side. On Prison Planet there was one thread with some truther interviewing a fireman friend of his. But if you notice, during the birthing of the truther movement, they were implicating that the FDNY was involved in the coverup. Now it seems they realized what a FUBAR that was and are attempting to try get them on their side.

Truthers definitely have a strange relationship with the FDNY. What's most peculiar of all is the fact that they avoid soliciting support from the FDNY (who could lend them miles of credibility and public notoriety) like they have the plague.

Why would a group that believes so passionately in their cause be so hesitant in approaching an organization that could be such a boon to them?

(Hint: See the OP.)

 

[njslim]

The place - a New York City firehouse. TIme - the present. You are about to enter
THE TRUTHER ZONE!

Demented Truther walks into FDNY firehouse.

DT: I am her to investigate that the WTC collapse was a controlled demolition and that
you are all involved in the coverup

FDNY: YO @#$^! What the $%&^* you doing here! Now get the &*( out of here!

DT: Shill! Sheeple! NWO Stooge!

FDNY: Hey #$%^ ! Now get the %^&*( out of here!

DT: I'm here to make a citizens arrest of all you as participants in the coverup!

Sound of half dozen FDNY fireman piling on DT

DT wakes up in jail wing of Bellevue Hospital. Unsympthetic judge sentences DT to
jail time for criminal trespass and assault

Rikers Island (NY City Jail)

Guard: Hey Tyrone! Here's your new cellmate - have fun!

 

[RedIbis]

And finally, master of innuendo RedIbis makes no direct accusations, but certainly makes a very strong implication:

That's because you have entirely misrepresented what I said. Since I don't expect the firefighters to have immediate explanations for the collapse, it wouldn't surprise me that they agreed and were satisfied with explanations that came out later.

What this has to do with complicity I have no idea, but I'm starting to get pissed at the accusation that I'm accusing any firefighter of any misdeed.

This might be the best way to finally get rid of me because if you keep this crap up, I'll eventually lose my temper and get banned. Or I'll take a deep breath and realize that all you're trying to do is rile me up with baseless accusations.

 

[1337m4n]

That's because you have entirely misrepresented what I said. Since I don't expect the firefighters to have immediate explanations for the collapse, it wouldn't surprise me that they agreed and were satisfied with explanations that came out later.

What this has to do with complicity I have no idea, but I'm starting to get pissed at the accusation that I'm accusing any firefighter of any misdeed.

This might be the best way to finally get rid of me because if you keep this crap up, I'll eventually lose my temper and get banned. Or I'll take a deep breath and realize that all you're trying to do is rile me up with baseless accusations.

And that's because you never actually state your position clearly on anything. Instead, you write in cryptic riddles and dodge any questions that are asked of you, thus leaving us with no choice but to guess what you mean. It's not our fault.

 

[nicepants]

I'm surprised the OP didn't mention Alex Jones, who flat out says that the FDNY was involved and guilty of "at least manslaughter".

 

[Alt+F4]

I don't expect the firefighters to have immediate explanations for the collapse, it wouldn't surprise me that they agreed and were satisfied with explanations that came out later.

What this has to do with complicity I have no idea, but I'm starting to get pissed at the accusation that I'm accusing any firefighter of any misdeed.

You're accusing them of being morons or covering up mass murder. Which is it? Seven years later and all 40,000 that were one the job then have access to the same information you do. Why are they satisfied with the explanations and you and your truther buddies aren't?

 

[johnny karate]

That's because you have entirely misrepresented what I said. Since I don't expect the firefighters to have immediate explanations for the collapse, it wouldn't surprise me that they agreed and were satisfied with explanations that came out later.

What this has to do with complicity I have no idea, but I'm starting to get pissed at the accusation that I'm accusing any firefighter of any misdeed.

This might be the best way to finally get rid of me because if you keep this crap up, I'll eventually lose my temper and get banned. Or I'll take a deep breath and realize that all you're trying to do is rile me up with baseless accusations.

Spare us your righteous indignation, Red. In the thread from which your quote was pulled you ignored numerous requests to follow-up on your comments. You had ample opportunity to clarify your remarks and chose not to, and as 1337m4n pointed, that leaves us no choice but to interpret your words for ourselves.

Not that I'm buying your charade anyway.

Let's take a look back, shall we?

In the thread in question, you provided the following list of firefighters whose eyewitness testimony "might not support [our] side of the argument":

Battalion Chief Brian Dixon
Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick
Assistent Commissioner Stephen Gregory
FF Timothy Julian
FF Joseph Meola
FF William Reynolds
FF Kenneth Rogers
Cpt Dennis Tardio

Do you want me to keep going?

When it was pointed out to you numerous times that the experiences these people described have nothing to do with a controlled demolition, nor do any of these people actually believe they witnessed a controlled demolition, you made the following counter arguments :

Sure, weeks, months, maybe years later, these people were informed of what the source of their initial descriptions were, but as any detective worth his/her salt knows, it's always the first interview which is most important. How people choose to interpret their experience later on is often of little consequence compared to the value of that first, unadulturated account.

How many FF accounts would it take for you to admit that there were reports of synchronized, series of explosions?

Just because you ignore these accounts or toss them off as confused accounts doesn't mean they don't describe precisely, the characteristics of controlled demo.

You specifically name firefighters as witnesses who can offer testimony that contradicts the official version, even though you acknowledge that these same firefighters don't actually question the official version.

If you weren't arguing that members of the FDNY witnessed evidence of a controlled demolition and later "changed their minds" about what they witnessed, then what were you arguing?

 

[tsig]

That's because you have entirely misrepresented what I said. Since I don't expect the firefighters to have immediate explanations for the collapse, it wouldn't surprise me that they agreed and were satisfied with explanations that came out later.

What this has to do with complicity I have no idea, but I'm starting to get pissed at the accusation that I'm accusing any firefighter of any misdeed.

This might be the best way to finally get rid of me because if you keep this crap up, I'll eventually lose my temper and get banned. Or I'll take a deep breath and realize that all you're trying to do is rile me up with baseless accusations.

Once again you accuse FDNY of being incompetent or cowards.

Or both.

 

[Blender Head]

I'm surprised the OP didn't mention Alex Jones, who flat out says that the FDNY was involved and guilty of "at least manslaughter".

This can be edited into the OP if the thread does not pertain merely to JREF Truthers:

 

[johnny karate]

Great add, BH. Jones and Bermas are truly despicable.

 

[kookbreaker]

And just remember that Bermas PROUDLY put up that video of his comments to Abby.

Oh, and Alex Jones is a gutless sniveling, loudmouth coward.

 

[dudalb]

Well, Jones got his Warholian fifteen minutes today by disrupting MS-NBC's coverage of the DNC with his bullhorn antics. Hope he is happy.

 

[johnny karate]

Here's one I forgot to add at the time.

TheLoneBedouin chooses the "lesser" of two evils, and settles for just implying the FDNY are weak-minded dupes (bolding mine):

Just like the general population there are those to whom it is obvious, and those who literally cannot entertain the thought.
Just as in the general population, there are Fire Fighters who can think critically, and those who cannot.
Why would you assume that the FDNY would necessarily be more prone to question the official story- perhaps they are even less likely to question the OCT due to their emotional involvment in it.

My question clearly implies that the FDNY would be subjected to the same propaganda as everyone else, and that it may have an even deeper effect on them.

 

[Ragnarok]

Why do the FDNY have any bearing on whether there was an inside job or not? It's not like they had access to everywhere within the stricken buildings, and were actually looking for suspicious objects.