Truther firefighters? Some quick help?

[porch]

Sometimes I think that debating truthers at all is counterproductive. On the other hand, sometimes I can't help myself.

I'm engaged in an online debate with one, and I mentioned that FDNY members would be none too pleased to be accused of being part of a cover-up that murdered some of their freinds and colleagues.

They responded by saying:

Many fire fighters, victims, family members, emergency responders, police officers, pilots, and scholars are members of various organizations asking the same questions about 9/11 that the people referred to as 'conspiracy nuts' are asking.

There is so much info out there. Could someone point me in the right direction? I'm specifically interested in 1) What firefighters are my adversary talking about? 2) How come some of the FDNY are in on the conspiracy but others aren't? How does that work? The truther 'logic' is so all over the place. I'm befuddled.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Well, it's their claim, ask them to name some FDNY firemen who think that FDNY firemen were part of the conspiracy.

 

[firecoins]

FDNY are very close knit. This is not a group who would stay silent if 343 of their members to died in a conspiracy. The lower downtown units knew every inch of the buildings and are not involved in a conspiracy. The truth movement would have specific names and comany numbers if they had FDNY on their side. They don't. Theses a holes claim 70% to 80% of the population. Not a chance. in hell.

 

[DavidJames]

Well, it's their claim, ask them to name some FDNY firemen who think that FDNY firemen were part of the conspiracy.

That's exactly the correct response. My million $'s is on their response being they won't come forward due to fear, retaliation, etc.

 

[CHF]

Twoofers love to present quotes from firefighters saying they heard what SOUNDED like bombs or explosions in the WTC.

What is always missing though, is any indication that those firefighters TODAY think there really were bombs in the towers. All their quotes are from 2001-02 of the FDNY describing 9/11. None since then as best I can tell.

For some reason few, if any, twoofers make any effort to follow up.

And there's no "NY Firefighters For 9/11 Truth" either.

 

[porch]

Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Dr. Adequate, they seem to be making the claim that rank-and-file firefighters were not in on it, but that the Fire Chief was. He "pulled it" because this Silverstein character told him to?

 

[firecoins]

What is always missing though, is any indication that those firefighters TODAY think there really were bombs in the towers. All their quotes are from 2001-02 of the FDNY describing 9/11. None since then as best I can tell.

NO all the quores are from 9/11 itself! None are from any later date! No paid member of the FDNY is a member of the truth movement and 343 dead members proves they were not apart of any conspiracy. I have no doubt FDNY knew WTC 7 would collpase. Because they weren't fighting the fires and the builidng was extensively damaged.

Silverstein wasn't in on it nor was any FDNY Chief. Silverstein is losing money in this deal. They say this because he sais "pull it" meaning pull out the firefighters. The truth movement has nothing.

 

[332nd]

Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Dr. Adequate, they seem to be making the claim that rank-and-file firefighters were not in on it, but that the Fire Chief was. He "pulled it" because this Silverstein character told him to?

Ask him when they attached the cables to the building and why did no camera catch said cables because that's what demo companies mean when they say "Pull" refering to CD.

 

[Brainster]

Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Dr. Adequate, they seem to be making the claim that rank-and-file firefighters were not in on it, but that the Fire Chief was. He "pulled it" because this Silverstein character told him to?

The Fire Chief is Daniel Nigro; his testimony is here:

The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn't lose any more people.

We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was given, at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center [7] collapsed completely.

As others have noted, it is common for the Deniers to claim that most firefighters support them, but in fact at Ground Zero most of the firefighters despise them.

 

[Hamradioguy]

Interesting that no one in the demolition business ever uses the word "pull it" to describe demolishing a building with explosives. Even more interesting is when someone brings this up none of the truth movement folks seem willing to acknowledge this little fact.

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Interesting that no one in the demolition business ever uses the word "pull it" to describe demolishing a building with explosives. Even more interesting is when someone brings this up none of the truth movement folks seem willing to acknowledge this little fact.

au contraire.

Debunked over at the SLC forums still claims that pull it means a controlled demolition, but he doesn't think explosives were used. Or something like that. He's adamant that pull it is a term by demo experts simply because pulling a building over is a controlled demolition in itself. But he also refused to accept the fact that pulling a 47 story buildiing is next to impossible. Or something like that. Reading his posts makes my anus bleed.

 

[Totovader]

What I often find is that when conspiracists lump all these people together and claim they're "asking questions" they want you to believe that "asking questions" is a euphemism for believing in a conspiracy.

It seems as if this individual jumps right into that assertion- they won't even allow you to conclude that yourself.

 

[Gravy]

Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Dr. Adequate, they seem to be making the claim that rank-and-file firefighters were not in on it, but that the Fire Chief was. He "pulled it" because this Silverstein character told him to?

That means that all the other FDNY, EMS, NYPD, PAPD personnel, and the structural engineers, fire safety engineers, and controlled demolitions experts who were on the scene are either lying to protect this one person, or are utterly fooled... and they haven't spoken a word about this for the past five years

Plausible?

By the way, Larry Silverstein has no say in FDNY operations, and the "Fire Chief" died on 9/11 in the collapse of the north tower. His name was Peter Ganci.

Please give these claims all the respect they deserve.