Truth Movement origins anti-Semitic?

MaGZ

Philosopher
MaGZ
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
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I seems to be a common shibboleth here that the Truth Movement was started by anti-Semites. I don’t buy this. The first to question what happened began in France with the book The Big Lie. Later, David Ray Griffin and then the Loose Change gang came onboard. None of these can be considered anti-Semitic.

So when you make this claim, who are you talking about?
 
David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew both make heavy use of Holocaust denier Christopher Bollyn as a source of information.

I'd consider both Griffin and LC as anti-semitic on those grounds.
 
There may have been Anti-Semites involved in the truth movements origins but I never really thought about it. I haven't seen many people here state that the movement was founded by Anti-Semites but I may be wrong. What I do know is that there is a strong Anti-Semitic streak in the truth movement. A simple google search for 911 jews or 911 zionist demonstrates this.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew both make heavy use of Holocaust denier Christopher Bollyn as a source of information.

I'd consider both Griffin and LC as anti-semitic on those grounds.
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I see, guilt by association.
Do you have a copy of Mein Kampf on your shelf?
 
You asked for evidence that anti-semites are behind the truth movement - you got it; one of the primary sources of the truth movement is an anti-semite.

As a member of the truth movement, with anti-semitic views and (no doubt) a copy of Mein Kampf on your shelf, shouldn't you be hoping the movement was started by people like you? And shouldn't you be hoping he had a copy of Mein Kampf on his shelf?
 
Looks like I missed this one. Should have been in the sub-forum perhaps...then again its a CT about the 9/11 truth movement itself rather than 9/11.....anyway, the same topic came up in a thread there (again) and rather than repeating myself will just link to the relevant post.
 
Practically any conspiracy theory, or movement, sooner or later ties into anti-semitic views and, well, noisemakers. I won't bother to elaborate because it is so basic. (It's almost like saying, "oh look, the sun rose in the east today!")

That said ... and I feel really icky now ... I agree with Magz that 9/11 conspiracism as such did not have its birth as an anti-semitic theory/ movement. It developed, inevitably, into that.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew both make heavy use of Holocaust denier Christopher Bollyn as a source of information.

I'd consider both Griffin and LC as anti-semitic on those grounds.
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I would not say so myself but perhaps you consider the ADL are the best people to determine anti-semetism?

If so, presumably CAIR would then be the best people to determine anti-Arab sentiment.

As CAIR describes Littlegreenfootballs as “a vicious, anti-Muslim hate site”, the fact that you have used it as a source and consider the use of racist sources to be itself evidence of racism…well, I guess that would mean you have a more personal understanding of the issue than the rest of us.

Not forgetting the obvious fact that racism directed against Arabs is itself ‘anti-semetic’.

Clearly this is not an argument for either SoT's racism or even that of LGF. The point is that attempting to represent the use of a source as support for the ideological views of that source goes against the most basic of academic principles. If the information provided is inaccurate it can be challenged on those grounds. If it is being used in a racist manner it can be challenged on those grounds. Apart from the irrationality of it, if scholars had to avoid referencing writers with some form of unpleasant personal opinion their available sources would be cut in half.

As an aside, even allowing for proven racists, to quote Chomsky "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

i.e. let them speak and judge them based on the fallacy of the thoughts they express not some abstract label.

I could have referenced David Ben Gurion's "The test of democracy is freedom of criticism." but then, by your reasoning, I'd be a Zionist and that would just confuse things no end.
 
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gtc said:
You asked for evidence that anti-semites are behind the truth movement - you got it; one of the primary sources of the truth movement is an anti-semite.

As a member of the truth movement, with anti-semitic views and (no doubt) a copy of Mein Kampf on your shelf, shouldn't you be hoping the movement was started by people like you? And shouldn't you be hoping he had a copy of Mein Kampf on his shelf?
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I’m not associated with the Truth Movement, if that is what you are asking?
 
Brannagyn said:
I would not say so myself but perhaps you consider the ADL are the best people to determine anti-semetism?

If so, presumably CAIR would then be the best people to determine anti-Arab sentiment.
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CAIR has ties to islamic extremist terror groups and has been named by US federal prosecutors as "unindicted co-conspirators" in their investigations of terrorist financing. As such, their opinion of who is anti-whatever is irrelevant.

The rest of your post is therefore null and void.
 
MaGZ said:
I’m not associated with the Truth Movement, if that is what you are asking?
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Your username stands for Missile at Ground Zero. You have been exposed as an anti semite on tis forum.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew both make heavy use of Holocaust denier Christopher Bollyn as a source of information.

I'd consider both Griffin and LC as anti-semitic on those grounds.
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Completely ridiculous logic. That's like saying anyone who drives a Ford or enjoys the poetry of Ezra Pound is an anti-semite.
 
RedIbis said:
Completely ridiculous logic. That's like saying anyone who drives a Ford or enjoys the poetry of Ezra Pound is an anti-semite.
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Holocaust deniers like Killtown and Christopher Bollyn came to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job, not because the evidence indicates it (no such evidence actually exists) but because of the hatred of the jewish people and thier belief that jews are at the root of everything bad that happens.

David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew took their information these people and spread it, knowing full well who and what Bollyn and Killtown are.

Griffin, Avery, Rowe and Bermas have never shown even the slightest hint that they are bothered by Killtown and Bollyns psychotic hatreds. They may not care for jews one way or the other themselves. But they also obviously don't care that they are helping to spread anti-semitism.
 
Perhaps to some degree, movements denying the official version of things attract the same kind of person.

Obviously not everyone who owns a copy of Loose Change also has The Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion on their bookshelf. But it wouldn't surprise me one iota if some of the folks are simply contrarian in nature.

I don't have much interaction with truthers anymore. I used to go point-by-point with them until I realized how genuinely futile reasoning with a true believer is.

Nowadays whenever any sort of "truth" related talk comes up, I fake a violent diarrhea attack and promptly scoot.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Holocaust deniers like Killtown and Christopher Bollyn came to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job, not because the evidence indicates it (no such evidence actually exists) but because of the hatred of the jewish people and thier belief that jews are at the root of everything bad that happens.

David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew took their information these people and spread it, knowing full well who and what Bollyn and Killtown are.

Griffin, Avery, Rowe and Bermas have never shown even the slightest hint that they are bothered by Killtown and Bollyns psychotic hatreds. They may not care for jews one way or the other themselves. But they also obviously don't care that they are helping to spread anti-semitism.
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Which of these four are Jews? Answer please.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
Perhaps to some degree, movements denying the official version of things attract the same kind of person.
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I tend to agree with this sentiment. I think that many anti-semitic types are already of the conspiratiorial mindset and therefore are pre-disposed to believing in other conspiracy theories, such as those surrounding the events of 9/11, in addition to their jewish-world-domination type conspiracies.

Other "truthers" get implicated in that they seem to like to use these rather dubious and often agenda-driven sources, because it fits with their fantasy, without pausing to consider the underlying motivation or how it will reflect upon them.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
David Ray Griffin and the Loose Change crew both make heavy use of Holocaust denier Christopher Bollyn as a source of information.

I'd consider both Griffin and LC as anti-semitic on those grounds.
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9) Most of the 9/11 truth seekers are Zionists
Jews make up a small portion of America and Europe, and Zionist Jews are an even smaller percentage, but they dominate the 9/11 truth movement. Could this be because Zionists are more interested in exposing the 9/11 crime? Smith thinks not.

It is more likely because they are trying to fool people into thinking that they are the truth seekers, when in reality they are diverting everybody's attention away from Israel and onto Bush, Cheney, the CIA, and a few military leaders.

Please consider that the people you trust to expose corruption, such as Amy Goodman (of Democracy Now), Alex Jones (www.infowars.com), Webster Tarpley (author of 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA), Dave von Kleist (The PowerHour radio show), and hundreds or thousands of others are deceiving us.

Why would those people lie? Here is an introduction:
To get away with crimes, pretend to be a crime fighter

Examples of Truth Seekers who are Zionists:
• Crypto Zionists
• What are Handlers?
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http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Avery-Rowe-Bermas-Hufschmid-phonecall.html
 
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