Truth about Denmark?

[FalsePerception]

I noticed there is a person from denmark on this forum.

I`ve been curious about denmark for a while so I have a few questions if thats alright.

I`ve heard some crazy stories about denmark for example: child pornography is legal???

Like to get the facts straight whatever I hear about denmark from the american media is negatively skewed.

Next as I understand it denmark is a 100% socialist state.

meaning if I`m a lazy a person and I don`t want to work I would be given a government subisidy? (hard to believe this would be true)

BTW this is not critizing I`m just wondering.

next and I don`t think this one is true: drugs are legalized?

all in all sounds like a pretty good place to LIVE!!

considering I`m lazy bastard, how can I get citizenship ?

Seriously though from what I`ve read your system sounds like it works well??? (contary to what I`ve heard elsewhere)

but I imange there must be problems with it. The reason I think your system works is because denmark is a small country.

Implament the same program in the united states and it would be a disaster! I think same heavy tax rate would destoy business in america, and the other problem would be government waste
5 million people is one thing 250 million to manage is another.

I am curious though how anyone can stand a 75% tax rate?!?!!!!!!

 

[shemp]

Whenever I need to know about a country, I always go to the folks who know everything and would never lead you wrong, the good old CIA!

CIA Factbook: Denmark

 

[CFLarsen]

I noticed there is a person from denmark on this forum.

There are actually a few of us. Heck, I'm not even living there, but....still...I'll have a go at it!

I`ve heard some crazy stories about denmark for example: child pornography is legal???

No. Pornography is legal. Child pornography is most definitely not.

Like to get the facts straight whatever I hear about denmark from the american media is negatively skewed.

Sometimes, negatively. I do find that the American media usually can't even get American facts right, so....

Next as I understand it denmark is a 100% socialist state.

No. In the past century, roughly half the time the country has been governed by the Social Democrats, which is a far cry from socialism. Once in a while, we have a rightist (by Danish standards - I'd have a hard time explaining the differences from left to right to an American - your Liberals/Democrats are close to the Danish Conservatives, so...) government. We do right now.

meaning if I`m a lazy a person and I don`t want to work I would be given a government subisidy? (hard to believe this would be true)

You can choose not to work, and you will get a subsidy, yes. It ain't much, though...it's a life, but not a very fun life.

BTW this is not critizing I`m just wondering.

Wonder away!

next and I don`t think this one is true: drugs are legalized?

No. However, you can obtain the odd pot from Christiania, a partly self-governing post-hippie communal society. Go easy, though.

all in all sounds like a pretty good place to LIVE!!

It sure is! Just be prepared to pay a lot more in taxes than in the US!

considering I`m lazy bastard, how can I get citizenship ?

You can't just move there - you have to have some kind of close family relationship, preferably a spouse with Danish citizenship.

Seriously though from what I`ve read your system sounds like it works well??? (contary to what I`ve heard elsewhere)

It works - for us. Denmark is very well organized, with relatively low crime and a high standard of living. Free education (actually, you get paid to go to college), free health care, state pension for all when you retire.

but I imange there must be problems with it. The reason I think your system works is because denmark is a small country.

Not necessarily. Sweden works pretty much the same way, and they are almost twice as big. I think it has more to do with what people want with their society.

Implament the same program in the united states and it would be a disaster! I think same heavy tax rate would destoy business in america, and the other problem would be government waste 5 million people is one thing 250 million to manage is another.

I don't see why: Once you get up there in those numbers, it is merely a question of scaling.

I am curious though how anyone can stand a 75% tax rate?!?!!!!!!

I see you have been reading what I posted recently on TVTalkshows. The tax rate itself is about 50% (but going down), and there's a 25% Value Added Tax on everything. Yes, it's expensive, but also very, very good...

 

[Bjorn]

I love Denmark! Danish people must be the most easy-going and (at the same time) civilized I ever met, even included my fellow Norwegians. I'm sure one of them will explain the difference between UK hooligans and Danish rooligans. Taxwise:

I see you have been reading what I posted recently on TVTalkshows. The tax rate itself is about 50% (but going down), and there's a 25% Value Added Tax on everything. Yes, it's expensive, but also very, very good...

50% taxes plus 25% VAT when you spend the other 50%, add up to 62.5, not 75%, of your income.

And that, of course, is a lot better .....

 

[Starshark]

Sounds like Denmark is fairly similar to Australia.


Still can't understand why 'tax' is such a dirty word to so many Americans. Christ, there's more to life than money!

 

[CFLarsen]

50% taxes plus 25% VAT when you spend the other 50%, add up to 62.5, not 75%, of your income.

According to Danish math, it is!

(oops..!)

 

[FalsePerception]

Interesting thanks for the info on denmark

Would the danish socialist system work in the U.S.?

I truly would like to see such as system implemented, to the see the end of poverty, homelessness in amercia, as a well a truly good educational system, and fairness for all. However this why I don’t believe you could apply that system to the U.S.

Denmark has a small population 5 million people, United States has much larger population 250 million.

Government inefficiency and corruption increase in proportion to size.

On a small scale a socialist/social welfare system could work but in a large nation much of the tax money would be lost to corruption and inefficiency IMO.

The US government wastes something like 25 cents to every dollar we pay in taxes. This is this exactly the reason I have problems with paying taxes to the US government. (I`m curious how much Danish tax money is lost in waste per dollar)

Now imangine how much the US government would waste if it recieved twice as much in tax revenue.

I would however agree a socialist/welfare system could work in america provided the government bureaucracy was COMPLTELY restructured. (more likely it would take a total government restructuring a whole new system)

Though an argument I’ve heard against socialism and high taxes is that companies will lose the incentive to innovate if taxes are too high. Technology will advance slower due to lack of incentive. This is the argument I hear sometimes against raising taxes in America. Can’t really test it’s validly but on face value it seems to be a valid argument.

I doubt though there could ever be a true socialist system in America. But it is interesting to consider if such a system would work in a country as large as America. To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t been tried in a large country unless you consider communism a true socialist system (Many confuse communism with socialism)

ADD: I believe india is socialist also that might make a very good case as to why socialism would not work in america.

 

[Ove]

Well as a resident in Denmark I'll have a stab

Would the danish socialist system work in the U.S.?

Yes, if you replaced most of the population.

On a small scale a socialist/social welfare system could work but in a large nation much of the tax money would be lost to corruption and inefficiency IMO.

Not nescessarily. I don't think it has anything to do with population size more general attitude.

The US government wastes something like 25 cents to every dollar we pay in taxes. This is this exactly the reason I have problems with paying taxes to the US government. (I`m curious how much Danish tax money is lost in waste per dollar)

Probably something like the same. I don't think our system is more efficient.

Now imangine how much the US government would waste if it recieved twice as much in tax revenue

Twice as much!!!!

I would however agree a socialist/welfare system could work in america provided the government bureaucracy was COMPLTELY restructured. (more likely it would take a total government restructuring a whole new system)

I think you are right.

Though an argument I’ve heard against socialism and high taxes is that companies will lose the incentive to innovate if taxes are too high. Technology will advance slower due to lack of incentive. This is the argument I hear sometimes against raising taxes in America. Can’t really test it’s validly but on face value it seems to be a valid argument.

Yes i hear that too(from our industry), trouble is that most Danish compagnies seems to be doing quite fine, mind you we does not try to make cheap merchandize, like they do in the far east. We simply can't compete with people who get's a bowl of rice a day for salary.

I think some of your industrial problems comes from the fact that you are trying to do just that. The compagny i work for (Bang & Olufsen) is a fine example of what we can do namely High tech, high end products and then we let Sony make a million DVD players/month. I know it was good old Ford who said "I dont earn much pr.car but i make a lot of cars" but in order for that principle to work you got to have the lowest wages and i don't for a moment think an American worker would like to work for far-east wages.

I doubt though there could ever be a true socialist system in America. But it is interesting to consider if such a system would work in a country as large as America. To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t been tried in a large country unless you consider communism a true socialist system (Many confuse communism with socialism)

I think you do so too. I don't like you calling our right wing lead country for a "socialist state". You know our standing joke about America is that you have two major parties: The Conservative and the REALLY Conservative. Our political parties may seem leftist to you but living close to the (former) real socialist states DDR and Russia i can assure you that there is absolutely nothing "socialist" about our goverment. Democracy? yes definitely and probably more democratic than USA, socialist? no.

ADD: I believe india is socialist also that might make a very good case as to why socialism would not work in america.

While India in theory may be a socialist state i do believe they have a heavy load of religion that prevents democracy. The whole "Caste system" is IMHO a serious block to any true democracy.

 

[iain]

It probably seems obvious to say it, but I don't see any reason why a solution that works well in one country should work well in another, or really why we would want it to.

Countries can be very different in size, culture, history, geography, expectations of the people, natural resources etc. I have no problem with the idea that a solution which works well in the US doesn't work elsewhere and vice versa.

I also think it is better for the world for there to be a variety of different systems. That way if some huge event happens which causes one system to collapse (e.g. big depression), others might perform better.

This is one reason I have a hard time understanding the US posters who think that exporting the way the US does things to European countries will automatically make them better places. It has also given me a better appreciation (from the comments on these boards) of why ways the US does things, which seem odd to me as a European, might work well in the US.

 

[Aardvark_DK]

One has to realise that Danes have a degree of trust in their government that you don't find in many other countries (except maybe Sweden and Norway). A friend of mine is currently residing in Italy, and he believes that a system similar to the Danish would be impossible to implement there because the Italians have very little faith in their government.

As for the Danish tax rate: It may seem very high but wages in Denmark are comparably higher too (minimum wage is approx. $12 an hour); and considering that both hospital care and education is free, I think we get a lot in return for the tax we pay.

 

[tamiO]

wages in Denmark are comparably higher too (minimum wage is approx. $12 an hour); and considering that both hospital care and education is free, I think we get a lot in return for the tax we pay.

Will you marry me ?

 

[CFLarsen]

Probably something like the same. I don't think our system is more efficient.

Oh, yes, baby. You have no idea how much more efficient the Danish public sector is, compared to the (relatively) puny public sector in the US.

Everytime I have to go to a public office in the US, I have to bring all sorts of papers: Passport, greencard, paper with extention for greencard, driver's license, pay stub (lønseddel), receipt for e.g. electricity (because it has my address on it!). I have to fill out forms again and again, with the same information: Name, address, education, etc. I even have to state what religion I have, as well as what 'ethnic' group I consider myself belonging to.

They don't know for sure where people live. Who they are. What they do. What they make. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. They don't merge their databases, they don't correspond between agencies.

They may be 'free' from the Danish Central Personal Number, but they pay a hefty price for their 'freedom'. I have never stood so much in line as I have in the US. Not only in supermarkets and malls, but in every government office.

Gee....I could compare the US to the old Soviet Union....

Whatever is 'government' is regarded with deep mistrust in the US. People are almost ashamed to admit they work in the public sector. Changing the system is one minor thing, compared to changing the apathic nature of Americans: They complain, but they don't do anything to change it.

 

[FalsePerception]

I think you do so too. I don't like you calling our right wing lead country for a "socialist state". You know our standing joke about America is that you have two major parties: The Conservative and the REALLY Conservative. Our political parties may seem leftist to you but living close to the (former) real socialist states DDR and Russia i can assure you that there is absolutely nothing "socialist" about our goverment. Democracy? yes definitely and probably more democratic than USA, socialist? no.

I apologize if you took that the wrong way.

my understanding is that socialism is a type of system where the government takes care of it's citizens in everyway: health, education, housing, retirement, food, everything.

While communism is not socialist. communism is a dictatorship under the pretense of socialism.

but I’ll check the dictionary to be sure

SORRY my understanding is way OFF!!!!!
Denmark is not socialist

Darn it I sometimes forget to take the crap coming out of the idiot box with a skeptical eye.

Whenever I hear denmark mentioned it's called socialist.
BLASTED lying, agenda driven media

A great example of why it is important to have a clear understanding of what a word means. I think that is what it means is not good enough.

My apologies to all danes

Everytime I have to go to a public office in the US, I have to bring all sorts of papers: Passport, greencard, paper with extention for greencard, driver's license, pay stub (lønseddel), receipt for e.g. electricity (because it has my address on it!). I have to fill out forms again and again, with the same information: Name, address, education, etc. I even have to state what religion I have, as well as what 'ethnic' group I consider myself belonging to. They don't know for sure where people live. Who they are. What they do. What they make. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. They don't merge their databases, they don't correspond between agencies.

They may be 'free' from the Danish Central Personal Number, but they pay a hefty price for their 'freedom'. I have never stood so much in line as I have in the US. Not only in supermarkets and malls, but in every government office.

Gee....I could compare the US to the old Soviet Union....

Yeah that sounds like the american bureaucracy: Awful! I`ll never forget the horrendous lines the last time I visted the DMV. For the most part the american government is grossly ineffiecent. The merging of data bases sounds like a great idea!!!!! but the words american bureaucracy and innovation do not mix. america could see that system someday but by then Denmark would probally a newer and better system.

As for lines at supermarkets that is the fault of private industry. They should open up more lanes or build another market if lines are too long.

Whatever is 'government' is regarded with deep mistrust in the US. People are almost ashamed to admit they work in the public sector. Changing the system is one minor thing, compared to changing the apathic nature of Americans: They complain, but they don't do anything to change it.

To clarify americans are not ASHAMED to admit they work in the public sector the only EXECPTIONS are the people who work at the IRS and the DMV.

it is true though that amercians have a mistrust of government, the reasons are many too many to list I`ll just name vietnam as an example of the why.

As to the apathetic of nature of americans. While it's true many americans are apathetic that is a generalization. I`m not a not an apathetic person if I want something done I take action and thats the same with many I know, however in general you are correct.

Well after all this discussion of Denmark I have my mind made up.
I’ll be sure to visit Denmark when I go to europe someday, I want to see this system for myself (along with other reasons) I hope the danish are friendly towards americans. (I`m always reminded of the french when I think of europe )

 

[DanishDynamite]

I see other Danes have already answered, but I'd just like to give my own opinion to a few of the questions.

Next as I understand it denmark is a 100% socialist state.

Almost, but not quite. The state "only" takes about 70-80 % of our money (through income tax, VAT, duties, tariffs, etc.). We are allowed to keep the remainder as pocket money.

meaning if I`m a lazy a person and I don`t want to work I would be given a government subisidy? (hard to believe this would be true)

You certainly would. Although Claus says the amount isn't much, it is certainly large enough that many people would actually see a decrease in their income if they got a job.

all in all sounds like a pretty good place to LIVE!!

Indeed it is.

but I imange there must be problems with it.

From a local viewpoint, there are many problems. Compared to problems of many other countries, there are few. As the saying goes: "Everything is relative". From my perspective one of the main problems is the inflexibility of the labor market.

I am curious though how anyone can stand a 75% tax rate?!?!!!!!!

Oddly enough, many Danes don't mind, as long as they feel they are getting something back. Personally I would like to see a substantial decrease.

(Awaiting Claus's (and other Danes) response with bated breath).

 

[mbp]

Oddly enough, many Danes don't mind, as long as they feel they are getting something back. Personally I would like to see a substantial decrease.

(Awaiting Claus's (and other Danes) response with bated breath).

You'll get no argument from me. I agree with everything you said
We do get something in return for our tax money, but the current level of taxation is ridiculous.

 

[Smalso]

Way back in the 60s I was part of a joint NATO exercise with units of the Danish army. We enjoyed the hospitality of the Danish soldiers and civilians for a week. While in Copenhagen on Saturday night, I made the acquaintance of a man and his wife. They invited me into their home, fed me and we had a few beers and talked quite a while, after which they furnished me with transportation back to our camp. On Sunday morning, they picked me up and escorted me around Copenhagen to see some of the sights--Hamlet's Castle and some other great stuff. I have very fond and warm memories of those wonderful people and my short trip to Denmark.

 

[arcticpenguin]

And what discussion of Danmark would be complete without mention of the incredibly high quality of baked goods?

 

[DanishDynamite]

mbp:

You'll get no argument from me. I agree with everything you said
We do get something in return for our tax money, but the current level of taxation is ridiculous.

Rart at se jeg ikke er alene.

Smalso

Way back in the 60s I was part of a joint NATO exercise with units of the Danish army. We enjoyed the hospitality of the Danish soldiers and civilians for a week. While in Copenhagen on Saturday night, I made the acquaintance of a man and his wife. They invited me into their home, fed me and we had a few beers and talked quite a while, after which they furnished me with transportation back to our camp. On Sunday morning, they picked me up and escorted me around Copenhagen to see some of the sights--Hamlet's Castle and some other great stuff. I have very fond and warm memories of those wonderful people and my short trip to Denmark.

Thank you for the kind words. Likewise, the vast majority of Americans I have met have been out-going and sympathetic. I'm afraid it's been over 15 years since I was in the States, but I enjoyed it very much.

BTW, your user name has always made me smile. In Danish, it translates as "slim sow"!

 

[mbp]

 

[Smalso]

DD, that's information I can always use. Actually, it's the result of a typo that I didn't correct. I was named for my father (Sam) and for years I was known as Sam, too--or Sam II...get it? When I decided to use Samalso as my user name, I left out the "a" and didn't bother to fix it. After reading the Danish translation of it though, I might make up another story about it. Thanx.