Tony, immigrants, and Aztlan

[LFTKBS]

In this thread, the inestimable Tony proposed some actions "to keep foreigners and enemies of the US from moving in taking over. See "Aztlan" (sp?). "

I asked him to expand on it; he said "I did expand on it. Do you know what Aztlan (sp?) is?"

I did, and I do.

I'm still waiting for that response, Tony. If Aztlan is something other than the mythological place of origin of the Aztecs, and it's germane to your anti-immigrant screed, here is your chance to one-up me.

 

[Tony]

This is taken out of context. Why dont you highlight what the "action" is?


Anyway, please read up on this.

http://aztlan.net/

It's basically a group of racist Mexican Nazis that want to re-claim parts of America as their own and form a new, separate country.

 

[aerocontrols]

Why did you start a new thread for this?

 

[iankaplan]

I just read through the Aztlan website.

Hey, did you guys know that most American Jews have dual citizenship in Israel?

I sure didn't, but I read it on Aztlan so it must be true...

That "news" site is filled with anti-semitic propaganda. Tony's right to say that it is dangerous.

 

[Tmy]

It's basically a group of racist Mexican Nazis that want to re-claim parts of America as their own and form a new, separate country.

Hmm a group of people wanting to reclaim old lands and form a new separate country out ofthem.........Sounds familiar.

I dont see why they would be anti semitic, they seem to have quite alot in common with zionists.

 

[Tony]

Hmm a group of people wanting to reclaim old lands and form a new separate country out ofthem.........Sounds familiar.

I dont see why they would be anti semitic, they seem to have quite alot in common with zionists.

You obviously didnt look at the website.

 

[Tmy]

You obviously didnt look at the website.

No I havent. From the descriptions is seems like a place I wouldnt care to visit.

 

[LFTKBS]

Why did you start a new thread for this?

Because the old one was pretty dead, and I derive perverse thrills from starting new threads. I learned it from may flower.

Originally posted by Tony
This is taken out of context. Why dont you highlight what the "action" is?

Sure. You said you would, if you were president, "Campaign to make English the official language of America" in order "to keep foreigners and enemies of the US from moving in taking over."

That last part, properly parsed, should read "to keep foreigners from moving in and taking over, and to keep enemies of the US from moving in and taking over."

Apparently Tony feels that the only good immigrants are those who already speak English.

Re: Aztlan: okay, so . . . they hate Israel and they want to take back parts of the U.S. Southwest. Pretty virulent and wacky stuff. Seems to me they'd have a much easier time of it if they laid off the Jews for like two seconds, but that's they way they want to do it, I guess.

Tony, if I don't judge Argentina by the few Nazis hiding there, and I don't judge America by its Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells, why should I judge the entire country of Mexico and every person in La Raza because of some crappy website with bad ideas?

 

[Tony]

No I havent. From the descriptions is seems like a place I wouldnt care to visit.

Ok, let me get this straight. You challenge the characterization of this group as anti-Semitic without reading the website. Now you don’t want to read this website because they were characterized as anti-Semites? WTF kind of Forrest Gump logic is that?

 

[Tony]

Apparently Tony feels that the only good immigrants are those who already speak English.

This is a strawman.

Tony, if I don't judge Argentina by the few Nazis hiding there, and I don't judge America by its Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells, why should I judge the entire country of Mexico and every person in La Raza because of some crappy website with bad ideas?

WTF?

There seems to be a disease of simplemindedness going around this website lately. I’m not asking you to judge them.

 

[Tmy]

Ok, let me get this straight. You challenge the characterization of this group as anti-Semitic without reading the website. Now you don’t want to read this website because they were characterized as anti-Semites? WTF kind of Forrest Gump logic is that?

No Im sure theyre anti-semties. I was being sarcastic since I found it ironic that they are anti-semites yet theyre looking to do the same thing as the zionists.

I pop in and out on a work computer so Id rather not have cookies from racist websites on my computer. Thats why I didnt check out the place.

 

[LFTKBS]

This is a strawman.

Perhaps. What should we do about immigration, then, if you want English as the official language? How do immigrants from non-English speaking countries file paperwork with the government if it's not in their language and there are no translators to help them? What exactly do you want? There's a lot of huffing and puffing from you on this subject, even though it stands at odds with your other views on the role of government.

The government is supposed to serve the people. Some citizens - citizens with the same rights as you - don't speak English as their first language. Why make them second-class citizens?

There seems to be a disease of simplemindedness going around this website lately. I’m not asking you to judge them.

Then why did you bring up aztlan.net? For kicks? You said you wanted to stop foreigners from coming in and taking over, and you specifically made reference to La Voz de Aztlan. What's the connection?

And if anyone's simpleminded, it's you, for thinking that making English the official language of the U.S. would solve any problems.

 

[Tony]

Perhaps. What should we do about immigration, then, if you want English as the official language? How do immigrants from non-English speaking countries file paperwork with the government if it's not in their language and there are no translators to help them? What exactly do you want? There's a lot of huffing and puffing from you on this subject, even though it stands at odds with your other views on the role of government.

The government is supposed to serve the people. Some citizens - citizens with the same rights as you - don't speak English as their first language. Why make them second-class citizens?

Good points. But my concern is more in the area of politics, I dont think debates and political campaigns should be done in spanish.

Then why did you bring up aztlan.net? For kicks? You said you wanted to stop foreigners from coming in and taking over, and you specifically made reference to La Voz de Aztlan.

I brought it up because it is an example of what I was talking about. And dont blow this group, or rather this ideology, off as some wacko group. They have have powerful supporters, Cruz Bustemonte for example.

 

[Tmy]

Whats wrong with Spanish debates?? Do you object to the sign language interpreter too?

I agree that its better if we all speak english but I dont mind close captioining, SAP, large print ballots or other tactics used to inform voters.

 

[Tony]

Whats wrong with Spanish debates?? Do you object to the sign language interpreter too?

I dunno, maybe the fact that a Spanish debate will be IN SPANISH, how am I suppose to know what the candidates are talking about?

I’ve never heard of a political debate in sign language.

 

[LFTKBS]

I dunno, maybe the fact that a Spanish debate will be IN SPANISH, how am I suppose to know what the candidates are talking about?

I’ve never heard of a political debate in sign language.

Ah ho ho ho - yes, how would you know what they're talking about? Do you see what problems other people have with only-English governance? Tony, you're in no danger of having every debate or position be in a language other than English. Multiple languages = good. One language, set into law by the government = bad.

And the sign language interpreter is at most major events and almost all national debates.

 

[Tmy]

I dunno, maybe the fact that a Spanish debate will be IN SPANISH, how am I suppose to know what the candidates are talking about?

I’ve never heard of a political debate in sign language.

Its going to be translated into spanish T. THe only way it could be in all Spanish is if all the candidates spoke spanish. I dont think thats the case.

 

[Tony]

And the sign language interpreter is at most major events and almost all national debates.

But are there debates exclusively in sign language? That would be a more appropriate analogy.

 

[Tony]

Its going to be translated into spanish T. THe only way it could be in all Spanish is if all the candidates spoke spanish. I dont think thats the case.

Actually, that is the case. There was a Spanish only debate before the last governor election here in Texas. Politicians are blatantly selling out the american culture for political gain.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/01/texas.debate/

 

[Andonyx]

I just read through the Aztlan website.

Hey, did you guys know that most American Jews have dual citizenship in Israel?

I sure didn't, but I read it on Aztlan so it must be true...

That "news" site is filled with anti-semitic propaganda. Tony's right to say that it is dangerous.

We kind of do.

That is to say if we're of Jewish decent and from a nation on friendly terms, I think all you have to do for Israeli citizenship is ask.