To which point do you accept abortion? (poll)

[JJM 777]

I had a thread about contraception / abortion / infanticide two years ago, without a poll.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152722

Now there is another thread about the subject going on, also without a poll, so let us get some statistics about people´s opinions around here: see the poll.

 

[bjornart]

Not a well formed set of options. There's no set point where I consider abortion to become "wrong". There are various competing arguments for different points, and my current conclusion is malleable. So I wont vote.

 

[HansMustermann]

At the point where it can survive without a womb around it. Basically if you took it out and it lives on its own, congrats, it's a birth. If not, congrats, it's an abortion.

And if it needs some special machinery to live, well, then whoever is fussed about that can pay for it. If we don't count it as murder if someone doesn't sell the house to pay for some expensive machinery to keep a terminally ill relative alive -- and we don't -- then I don't see much of a problem with applying the same standard to a prematurely born baby who can't survive without such a machine. If the wingnuts want to keep someone alive at all cost, they can jolly well pay for it, or at least agree to universal healthcare. (Now that would be fun to see.)

 

[Xero]

I know several people who are poster children for retro-active abortions.

 

[falkowsi]

It depends.

 

[Ray Brady]

This is not something I would be willing to speak about in such broad generalities. I would need to know the details of a specific case before I could form an opinion on whether I could accept it.

And ultimately, I consider the question of whether I find it acceptable irrelevant. I don't honestly care if anyone else accepts the way I live my life, after all.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Abortion is never "ok." It is always a wrenching decision that leaves those involved saddened at best, angry and depressed at worst. It can split up marriages and leave parents and children completely alienated from each other.

If you're asking at what point during gestation abortion becomes morally wrong that's a different question.

 

[JJM 777]

The results of the poll so far suggest that no consensus prevails here about the morality of this issue. And why would one expect that to be the case, anyway? Some expect it to be the case, some others not.


By the way, to explain why I separated options 1 and 2: Catholics etc. etc. say that contraception is a sin, because we are obliged to fill the Earth with children. This begs the question, is a sexless single life (or monk life) a sin too, because also that fails to fill the Earth with your children. Splitting of hairs, but I wanted to point out this logical dead-end.

 

[bigred]

Not a well formed set of options. There's no set point where I consider abortion to become "wrong". There are various competing arguments for different points, and my current conclusion is malleable. So I wont vote.

Exactly. It isn't all about WHEN it's "OK."

And you should always have an "other" choice, unless you know you have absolutely covered all other options.

 

[falkowsi]

Catholics etc. etc. say that contraception is a sin, because we are obliged to fill the Earth with children. This begs the question, is a sexless single life (or monk life) a sin too, because also that fails to fill the Earth with your children. Splitting of hairs, but I wanted to point out this logical dead-end.

And not cloning yourself, is that a sin ?

 

[Lowpro]

I couldn't find the option for any parent to late-term abort their kid up to 18 years.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

This is not something I would be willing to speak about in such broad generalities. I would need to know the details of a specific case before I could form an opinion on whether I could accept it.

And ultimately, I consider the question of whether I find it acceptable irrelevant. I don't honestly care if anyone else accepts the way I live my life, after all.

^This.

 

[I Ratant]

There's no medical necessity option in the poll, which is a major reason for abortions.

 

[Cavemonster]

Yet another example of how the language of morality and "wrong" is utterly useless in rational decision making.

 

[Merko]

This is one of those cases where it really depends not only on the circumstances in the individual case (eg if the woman is in danger, I think abortion is always justified). But it also depends on the society you live in. As gruesome as the 'spartan infanticide' option may seem, I have a lot of understanding that this happened, not just in Sparta but also here in Sweden where I live, before there were any safe methods for abortion. For me, the most important thing is that children are loved and cared for, and infanticide soon after birth is in my opinion a better option if that is not possible. Fortunately, we have better options today, both in that safe abortions are possible and, in our part of the world, readily available, and that once a child is born, it is never hard to find eager foster parents. It was not always so.

Because late abortions are not pleasant experiences, I think there is also a good argument to have a limit where the vast majority of women will have discovered their pregnancies and some time to consider their options, but the procedure is still not too invasive. It forces a decision on an issue where procrastination is otherwise likely to lead to bad consequences. So I'm fairly happy with the laws we have today here in Sweden, although I do not support the underlying principle that fetuses that can survive outside the womb can not be aborted. If, in the future, it becomes possible to grow a fertilized egg into a baby completely outside the womb, I would not support banning abortions.

 

[JJM 777]

I would need to know the details of a specific case before I could form an opinion on whether I could accept it.

The poll options are not perfect, but voting gives you the chance to see the results, which might be of interest.

I assume that every voter assumes these circumstances in the scenario:
- the mother and the father have the same opinion about the case
- the choice is not illegal in the country where these people live
- the child was conceived from voluntary sex between an adult man and an adult woman who live in a permanent relationship
- the pregnancy is not a specific health risk to the mother, this is not a "whose life is more important" scenario
- the motive for Spartan infanticide (or abortion) can possibly be "Spartan", i.e. the fetus or baby being viable but with genetic disorders that the parents regard as highly unwanted

 

[I Ratant]

I couldn't find the option for any parent to late-term abort their kid up to 18 years.

.
It was in the Book, but those milk-sop liberals found a work-around.

 

[RandFan]

None of the choices represent my view.

 

[Lowpro]

.
It was in the Book, but those milk-sop liberals found a work-around.

Book Schmook, I'm with Christopher Titus on this one

 

[Minoosh]

This begs the question, is a sexless single life (or monk life) a sin too, because also that fails to fill the Earth with your children. Splitting of hairs, but I wanted to point out this logical dead-end.

Not begging the question, that's something different.

I've heard the Catholic hierarchy demanded celibate priest because it didn't want to support all those children.