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To Fear Jane Fonda Is To Fear Ourselves

Nova Land

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Earlier this year The Nation featured a pair of good articles debunking some commonly-held (but false) beliefs about Jane Fonda. I had intended to mention these articles at the time, thinking it might be of interest in light of election-year attempts to link Kerry with Fonda, but did not get around to it. The recent Sinclair "news" program, which attempts to smear Kerry with similar falsehoods, makes these articles of interest again.

One of these articles is available publicly on the web: Tom Hayden's "You Gotta Love Her". Unfortunately, this is the less informative of the 2 articles, and serves more as a warm-up for the other one. Carol Burke's "Why They Love to Hate Her", is more detailed, but it is only available on-line to paid subscribers. I have therefore not posted a link to it but have excerpted some key passages.
"Why They Love to Hate Her", by Carol Burke
The Nation, March 22, 2004

Before going to bed at the US Naval Academy, a plebe shouts "Good night!" to the senior midshipman in the company, and the company commander answers "Good night!" in reply. A litany of good nights then passes down the chain of the company's command. At the end of this ritual courtesy, the plebe yells the final good night: "Good night, Jane Fonda!" and the entire company shouts its enthusiastic retort: "Good night, bitch!" ... The ritual has been practiced by some but not all companies over the years, although in the past two years a few company officers have discouraged it.

... [E]ven as a grandmother in her mid-60s [Jane Fonda] continues to attract a seemingly endless stream of abuse. More than thirty years after her trip to North Vietnam, veterans fill cyberspace with their resentment, and new recruits learn that being a real warrior and hating Jane Fonda are synonymous...

... Some of the more vitriolic veterans' websites provide forums in which contributors vent their anger toward the actress... They rail at "Hanoi Jane," belittle "Jane Fondle" and castigate her as a "pinko slut" who "appeared nude in movies, smoked pot, smuggled drugs, used profanity publicly, and now, worst of all, was aiding and abetting the enemy during wartime." Most recently, hate-Fonda sites have displayed Photoshopped images designed to undermine the campaign of John Kerry by presenting the two side by side (along with real photos showing them several rows apart at an antiwar rally).

... [F]ictionalized accounts of Fonda's 1972 visit with American POWs in North Vietnam charge her with conspiracy. In these word-of-mouth and Internet stories, which circulate widely among active-duty soldiers and veterans, the punishment inflicted on uncooperative POWs is linked to Fonda's presence. An oft-told variant of the torture legend depicts a single prisoner (generally considered to be POW Jerry Driscoll) who is forced to meet with Fonda and registers his defiance by spitting on the star:

Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In 1978, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton.

This story is pure fiction...

The most popular of all these legends is by far the most dramatic. As recounted on another anti-Fonda site:


He [Larry Carrigan] spent 6 years in the "Hilton"--the first three of which he was "missing in action." His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned/fed/clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his [social security number] on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"

Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge...and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col Carrigan was almost number four.


Vietnam POWs have tried to debunk the stories falsely attributed to them. Mike McGrath, the president of NAM-POWs and a prisoner from 1967 to 1973, has denounced them. Speaking for specific POWs named in the stories, McGrath has tried to set the record straight:

"They had nothing to do with the article attributed to them. They ask that we get their names off that bunch of crap. Tonight I talked with Larry Carrigan. He asked that we get his name off all that crap as well. He never left a room to talk to anyone like that. No torture or beatings to see Fonda. He was living with Bud Day, John McCain and a bunch of hard-nosed resisters during the Fonda visit...lots of witnesses if you want to question him (or them). Larry was never near Jane. There were never any POWs killed on account of Jane. (Did anyone ever provide a name of one of these tortured fellows?) That story about the notes has a nice theatric touch, but no such thing ever happened. The only ones who met with Jane willingly, to my knowledge, were CDR Gene Wilber and LCOL Ed Miller. One NAM-POW was forced to go before the Fonda delegation. And I think that was only to sit at a table for a photo opportunity. I doubt he ever got a chance to talk to her, let alone slip her a note. To my knowledge, the worst that happened to the rest of us was that we had to listen to the camp radio (Radio Hanoi and Hanoi Hannah) with the Fonda propaganda. It pissed us off, but I doubt you can call that 'torture.' So, if you get a chance to SHUT THIS STORY DOWN to the groups who are forwarding it, PLEASE DO SO. "

Despite the efforts of McGrath and others to stanch the flow of such legends, they continue to circulate...


PS: Thanks, and a tip of the hat, to the late Barbara Deming for the classy thread title
 
She used profanity?

I have wondered about the whole thing. Just recently, a poster actually used one of those myths here.

They are popular, they are taken as truth, and will never be repudiated.

I think the reason she is hated so much is that she shattered the illusion so completely of US patriotism and faith in the military. It was the military that gave the US it's freedom, that fought wars around the world, that had defeated Hitler.

Now people were being asked to believe that this same body was not flawless, that it's leaders made mistakes, that the US was no longer the good guy, that civilians were dying in scores in the name of a policy that was wrong. And Jane didn't just say it, she was in your face about it. She was young, beautiful and talented.

It is interesting that the actual Vets, for whom all this fuss is supposedly being made, just want the truth told. I would guess they may not like Jane all that much, if that is so, fair enough, no one said they had to. The loathing that has been reserved especially for her, in their name, is something they want no part of. I think those who revell in these myths could learn something from that.
 
a_unique_person said:

I think the reason she is hated so much is that she shattered the illusion so completely of US patriotism and faith in the military. It was the military that gave the US it's freedom, that fought wars around the world, that had defeated Hitler.

Now people were being asked to believe that this same body was not flawless, that it's leaders made mistakes, that the US was no longer the good guy, that civilians were dying in scores in the name of a policy that was wrong. And Jane didn't just say it, she was in your face about it. She was young, beautiful and talented.

It is interesting that the actual Vets, for whom all this fuss is supposedly being made, just want the truth told. I would guess they may not like Jane all that much, if that is so, fair enough, no one said they had to. The loathing that has been reserved especially for her, in their name, is something they want no part of. I think those who revell in these myths could learn something from that.

Nonsense. While there are indeed some urban legends floating around about Jane, as documented at Snopes, , she did do and say things that were putrid about our vets and the POWs. The truth told at Snopes includes this, starting with her Potemkin visit to the Hanoi Hilton:

Fonda apparently didn't notice (or care) that the POWs were delivering their lines under duress or find it unusual the she was not allowed to visit the prisoner-of-war camp (commonly known as the "Hanoi Hilton") itself. She merely went home and told the world that "[the POWs] assured me they were in good health. When I asked them if they were brainwashed, they all laughed. Without exception, they expressed shame at what they had done." She did, however, charge that North Vietnamese POWs were systematically tortured in American prison-of-war camps.

To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."
 
I have never understood why anyone, ever, in any place, at any time, should give a monkey's buttock what any actor, musician, model, or "television personality" has to say on any subject outside acting, music, modelling, or television respectively. Who do they think they are? If I want an analysis of war time conditions, the first name that springs to mind isn't that of a rather inferior actress (who managed to get thoroughly upstaged by first-time actress Dolly Parton), any more than I'd listen to advice on the Kabbalah coming from Madonna, who spent the greater part of the eighties rolling around on stage in her underwear while touching herself.

Jane Fonda's a gullible idiot who backed herself into a corner and had to choose between publicly admitting how very stupid she was, or sticking to her mistake and swearing it's all true. She was only an actress. What did people expect? Brains? Insight? A cogent analysis of facts?

I suppose next we should send Jessica Simpson to tour Sudan, and ask for her analysis of the Janjaweed in the Darfur situation. Except she'd probably answer "I like their last album, but I don't really get the lyrics."
 
What I don't get is that right now, we know, KNOW, that the US committed atrocities in Vietnam yet somehow it's wrong for Kerry to have pointed it out 30 years ago.
 
And this would be the same Jane Fonda, paragon of integrity and honesty, who sold millions of dollars in 'exercise videos' to women suffering from poor body image disorders, telling them that they could look exactly like her with just a few minutes of exercise, all the while knowing that she herself looked like that because she was a purging anorexic.

Move over Dr. Mengele, your 'Physician of the Century' award has been passed on to St. Jane, the Health Queen...
:rolleyes:
 
Dorian Gray said:
What I don't get is that right now, we know, KNOW, that the US committed atrocities in Vietnam yet somehow it's wrong for Kerry to have pointed it out 30 years ago.

Do you stand by all that Kerry said about G.I. atrocities 30 yrs ago?
 
Mona said:
Do you stand by all that Kerry said about G.I. atrocities 30 yrs ago?

Over two million dead vietnamese can't be wrong.

The testimony, if you read it, was not just about blatant war crimes, which not all members of the US war crimes were guilty of at all, and which it does not accuse them of. The crime is also using modern, hi-tech weapons to blast the cr@p out of the place. IIRC, there is the statistic that North Vietnam had more bombs dropped on it than the whole of Germany and Japan in WWII. To subject these people to that much of a barrage was just wrong in itself.
 
Mona said:
Nonsense. While there are indeed some urban legends floating around about Jane, as documented at Snopes, , she did do and say things that were putrid about our vets and the POWs. The truth told at Snopes includes this, starting with her Potemkin visit to the Hanoi Hilton:

[

I think it is important to note that the Vets are asking for the lies being attributed to hem to stop, because it is causing them pain. If people really had a regard for the ex-pows, they would honor this request.
 
a_unique_person said:
Over two million dead vietnamese can't be wrong.

The testimony, if you read it, was not just about blatant war crimes, which not all members of the US war crimes were guilty of at all, and which it does not accuse them of. The crime is also using modern, hi-tech weapons to blast the cr@p out of the place. IIRC, there is the statistic that North Vietnam had more bombs dropped on it than the whole of Germany and Japan in WWII. To subject these people to that much of a barrage was just wrong in itself.

Ok, I repeat: Do you stand by all that Kerry said about G.I. war atrocities 30 yrs ago?
 
a_unique_person said:
I think it is important to note that the Vets are asking for the lies being attributed to hem to stop, because it is causing them pain. If people really had a regard for the ex-pows, they would honor this request.

Um, ok.

And about Jane Fonda?
 
Dorian Gray said:
What I don't get is that right now, we know, KNOW, that the US committed atrocities in Vietnam yet somehow it's wrong for Kerry to have pointed it out 30 years ago.

No one denies that there were atrocities committed in Vietnam. However most of what John Kerry pointed out were lies and fabrications.

To her credit Jane Fonda has apologized for her statements and actions during the war. Kerry on the other hand does not have the guts to do the same.
 
SRW said:
No one denies that there were atrocities committed in Vietnam. However most of what John Kerry pointed out were lies and fabrications.
Could you be more specific? How many of his claims were lies and can you list them along with the reasoning for believing they were lies?
 
Dorian Gray said:
What I don't get is that right now, we know, KNOW, that the US committed atrocities in Vietnam yet somehow it's wrong for Kerry to have pointed it out 30 years ago.

Correction: It is wrong for Kerry to have lied about it 30 years ago. It is especially wrong to lie about his fellow soldiers, some of whom were still in the field or POW's and whose lives were at stake.

Christmas in Cambodia, anyone?

How about Kerry vs. Kerry on Meet the Press?
 
DavidJames said:
Could you be more specific? How many of his claims were lies and can you list them along with the reasoning for believing they were lies?

I suggest you see them for your self.

See for yourself
 
DavidJames said:
I watched and did not see my questions answered. Now, please, quote the alleged lies and show me your evidence that they are lies.


First lie, Kerry clamed he was in Cambodia Christmas or
68, this was a lie, He stated this in his book and also to the US Senate.


His testimony to the US senate was biased on false statements form the winter solders.

He told multiple stories about the sipan that he Machine gunned killing a baby. depending on who the audience was.

Its late and I'm going to bed. If you are really intrested, look it up yourself. You are odioulsy to biased to believe anyting I show you anyway.
 
SRW said:
First lie, Kerry clamed he was in Cambodia Christmas or
68, this was a lie, He stated this in his book and also to the US Senate.
This discussion is about atrocities, does not apply.

His testimony to the US senate was biased on false statements form the winter solders. He told multiple stories about the sipan that he Machine gunned killing a baby. depending on who the audience was.
no quotes, no refuting evidence, no sale.

Its late and I'm going to bed. If you are really intrested, look it up yourself. You are odioulsy to biased to believe anyting I show you anyway.
lol - you start by calling Kerry a lier, make claims w/o any quotes or evidence. I ask for some and after 2 replies you still refuse to supply and I'm biased. sweet dreams :)
 
Go here for extracts from a book detailing the many and manifest falsehoods of Kerry and his Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a group partially funded by...Jane Fonda.
 

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