This Vet's Views On Kerry's Medals

[Luke T.]

Hey, I know this subject has been beaten to death, but please hear me out. Screw the Swift Boat Vets.

I think the deal with Kerry and his medals is a reflection of America as a whole about Viet Nam. Particularly the disenchantment.

I believe Kerry volunteered for Viet Nam. He was not drafted. I've heard, but can't confirm, that many of Kerry's Harvard classmates volunteered, and that two years later, hardly anyone from Bush's class did. That may reflect the change in national ardor over Viet Nam.

Kerry was in Viet Nam for four months and received three purple hearts and a silver star. He deserves a lot of respect for that.

When he went home, Kerry apparently tossed his medals onto the White House lawn. This may also be a reflection of the change in national ardor over Viet Nam. He may have felt guilt for participating in the killing of little yellow men in a place we didn't belong. He certainly expressed it very vocally at the time.

I turned down a couple medals over principles when I was in the Navy. And that probably cost me a promotion. Both times were because I felt subordinates under me deserved the same medals and were not getting them. I turned mine down in protest and made it clear in no uncertain terms I would publicly embarrass my Commanding Officer if he tried to pin them on me.

Kerry seems to have been acting on personal principles. And if those principles were flip-flopping all over the place, well hell, so was all of America. I say give the man a freaking break!

 

[Ed]

Kerry seems to have been acting on personal principles. And if those principles were flip-flopping all over the place, well hell, so was all of America. I say give the man a freaking break!

I think that it is difficult to explain to someone who was not part of it how wierd those times were. Of all the things one might fault either Kerry or Bush on, service to their country is not on the list IMO.

 

[DavidJames]

Hey, I know this subject has been beaten to death, but please hear me out. Screw the Swift Boat Vets.

I think the deal with Kerry and his medals is a reflection of America as a whole about Viet Nam. Particularly the disenchantment.

I believe Kerry volunteered for Viet Nam. He was not drafted. I've heard, but can't confirm, that many of Kerry's Harvard classmates volunteered, and that two years later, hardly anyone from Bush's class did. That may reflect the change in national ardor over Viet Nam.

Kerry was in Viet Nam for four months and received three purple hearts and a silver star. He deserves a lot of respect for that.

When he went home, Kerry apparently tossed his medals onto the White House lawn. This may also be a reflection of the change in national ardor over Viet Nam. He may have felt guilt for participating in the killing of little yellow men in a place we didn't belong. He certainly expressed it very vocally at the time.

I turned down a couple medals over principles when I was in the Navy. And that probably cost me a promotion. Both times were because I felt subordinates under me deserved the same medals and were not getting them. I turned mine down in protest and made it clear in no uncertain terms I would publicly embarrass my Commanding Officer if he tried to pin them on me.

Kerry seems to have been acting on personal principles. And if those principles were flip-flopping all over the place, well hell, so was all of America. I say give the man a freaking break!

Real nice commentary Luke. I missed the draft by one year and didn't volunteer. The nation was very divided and it seems the divisions have held strong since. It seems we have a very hard time judging anything related to Vietnam without dredging up our old bias.

 

[daenku32]

My uncle pulled a Bush by joining the national guard. Except that he actually served it properly.

 

[crimresearch]

Really? I couldn't find any record of anyone in the Guard who remembers serving with a 'M.Y. Uncle'...

I demand he release all of his service records now!!!

 

[Gary Gordon]

This whole thread seems to be designed to make Luke T. look good.

 

[Silicon]

This whole thread seems to be designed to make Luke T. look good.

MAN, that should be my new .sig.

 

[headscratcher4]

Clearly, you've not been around very long...Luke needs to do very little around here to look good.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Hey, I know this subject has been beaten to death, but please hear me out.

Damn you and your reasonable positions and your thoughtful posts. Damn you, Luke T.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Clearly, you've not been around very long...Luke needs to do very little around here to look good.

Agreed, as far as it goes. Because regarding Gary, I smell sock.

 

[Snide]

Clearly, you've not been around very long...Luke needs to do very little around here to look good.

HEAR HEAR!

 

[Charles Livingston]

Clearly, you've not been around very long...Luke needs to do very little around here to look good.

As a lurker who only occasionally posts, I would like to reiterate Headscratcher's sentiments. There isnt any regular poster on this board who I have more respect for than Luke. From the little I know of him from this board, I would say he is a person of honesty and integrity. And hell, he's got a lot of intersting things to say too!

Sometimes when a person writes or talks about themself and/or an event in their life, it can be for gloating/bragging reasons, but it can also just as often be just for the purpose of sharing a bit of oneself or experiences with others. When you are on here a little longer (I am assuming you havent been lurking long if you are indeed not a sock puppet) you will notice that Luke often shares stories and other things about his life and family. It's certainly possible, but I have never once felt he was gloating/bragging. He isnt shy to share things that are obviously painful experiences and/or things I would think (or that he explicity states) he isnt proud of. In short, he shares the good with the bad, its hard not to respect that.

 

[epepke]

I believe Kerry volunteered for Viet Nam. He was not drafted. I've heard, but can't confirm, that many of Kerry's Harvard classmates volunteered, and that two years later, hardly anyone from Bush's class did. That may reflect the change in national ardor over Viet Nam.

I think you're basically right about this.

I think it goes like this. People want to make Kerry seem Unamerican. A lot of people are still cheezed that he spent so much time after his discharge challenging the war. However, they realize that they're in the minority, because after an extremely tumultuous period, the majority opinion is that Viet Nam wasn't such a hot idea. So going after that directly wouldn't work. The medals are a proxy for this resentment.

 

[Mycroft]

I think the deal with Kerry and his medals is a reflection of America as a whole about Viet Nam. Particularly the disenchantment.

I agree 100%

There are some things about Kerry I don't like, but this isn't one of them. In my opinion, he deserves respect for both serving his country, and then protesting what his country was doing.

Especially when you compare him to someone who dodged the war with connections, and then didn't even serve his national guard duty properly.

 

[jj]

Re: Re: This Vet's Views On Kerry's Medals

I agree 100%

There are some things about Kerry I don't like, but this isn't one of them. In my opinion, he deserves respect for both serving his country, and then protesting what his country was doing.

Especially when you compare him to someone who dodged the war with connections, and then didn't even serve his national guard duty properly.

Well, Mycroft, I seem to disagree with you on a lot of things, but this isn't one.

The difference seems so, so very obvious. What disturbs me even more about the Bush campaign and the swifties is how they are determined to try to make the one who met his obligations look bad, and sweep their own draft-dodging under the rug.

 

[CFLarsen]

This whole thread seems to be designed to make Luke T. look good.

My, my...we seem to have a new Ignoramus in our midst....

Incidentally, Luke looks like ◊◊◊◊. But he does have his points...

 

[pgwenthold]

Re: Re: This Vet's Views On Kerry's Medals

I agree 100%

There are some things about Kerry I don't like, but this isn't one of them. In my opinion, he deserves respect for both serving his country, and then protesting what his country was doing.

Especially when you compare him to someone who dodged the war with connections, and then didn't even serve his national guard duty properly.

I think everyone (especially Kerry) would be better off to just respond to these shots at his record with something like, "I volunteered to serve in the military during wartime and did my duty as a soldier, and I will say that it was an important experience for me. After experiencing firsthand the terrible reality of war, I know too well why it is something that no one wants. However, sometimes circumstances will require us to make that decision for the security of our country and our freedom, but we always need to be sure that our mission is clear and that our actions help us to successfully accomplish that mission."


The advantage of this is that it covers his protests of the Vietnam war (would anyone dispute that that Vietnam lacked a clear mission?) despite serving, while at the same time not really criticizing those like Bush who got out of going (something no one wants). Moreover, the attrocities that others told him about are actions that do not progress the mission. Moreover, it leaves the wiggle room on Iraq, depending on whether one thinks that it serves the security of our country and our freedom.

 

[RandFan]

Good post Luke.

I'm kind of torn. I have questions on both sides. I think that there are Veterans who were hurt by Kerry's remarks and think it wrong now for him to campaign on his war record after having turned his back on them, the Veterans (as some of them see it).

In any event you make a very compelling argument. I have said from the start that I find the whole notion of questioning the medals to be distasteful.

Thank you for the post. I know that it is sincere and heartfelt and I respect you for it. It has given me reason to pause and consider this whole affair.

 

[csense]

My, my...we seem to have a new Ignoramus in our midst....

Incidentally, Luke looks like ◊◊◊◊. But he does have his points...

Care to explain the second sentence....or is it a test of observation

 

[Luke T.]

Good post Luke.

I'm kind of torn. I have questions on both sides. I think that there are Veterans who were hurt by Kerry's remarks and think it wrong now for him to campaign on his war record after having turned his back on them, the Veterans (as some of them see it).

Well, America has wobbled quite a bit in its treatment and respect for Viet Nam vets, too. From "baby killers" to heroes.

In any event you make a very compelling argument. I have said from the start that I find the whole notion of questioning the medals to be distasteful.

Thank you for the post. I know that it is sincere and heartfelt and I respect you for it. It has given me reason to pause and consider this whole affair.

Thanks.