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This is why religion is a problem

m_huber

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m_huber
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Nov 4, 2007
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or this is why religion is a problem ...

When passing judgment, magistrate Andre Geldenhuys said it was unacceptable for the pastor to distort Bible verses to justify his actions.
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Not so wholly true. It's just another pathetic excuse for abuse, but this one comes wrapped up in a religious wrapper. Whereas others come in other equally as pathetic wrappers.

It seems that religion seems to attract a fair amount of abusers that use it as shield for their heinous crimes.
 
Judging a philosophy by its abuse?

Why was it again that Stalin's brutal actions don't show that atheism is "a problem"?
 
Egg said:
Judging a philosophy by its abuse?

Why was it again that Stalin's brutal actions don't show that atheism is "a problem"?
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Perhaps because Stalin didn't use atheism as a reason for murdering millions.
 
Acleron said:
Perhaps because Stalin didn't use atheism as a reason for murdering millions.
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Perhaps...although he was never called to account for his actions so it's hard to know what reasons he might have given. Do you suppose he would still have had thousands of priests killed if he had believed the things they preached? Who knows? Who knows if the guy in the OP would have raped his daughter without being able to justify it in his mind by inventing religious excuses? Perhaps he could have used the excuse that he was passing on more of his own genes had he believed in the notion of "selfish gene" or used the excuse that he wasn't responsible for his actions if he believed in determinism. Who knows what such a sick mind might be capable of twisting round to fit such actions?
 
Georg said:
Agreed, fellow apologist.
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:D

Egg said:
Perhaps...
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No, not perhaps. We really know that totalitarian statists do the things they do because they sincerely think they are doing the right thing for the state. We also really know that genocides occur for religious reasons (Conquistadores, Balkans), ethnic reasons (Armenia, Rwanda) and reasons that border on insanity (the Holocaust). Stalin never used atheism as an excuse for any pogrom or things like he did in Ukraine... he used politics and statism.

godless dave said:
It shows why totalitarianism is a problem.
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Ding ding ding!

I disagree with the OP, but Egg's tangent is even further off base.
 
His daughter is now 23 and has three children - aged eight, five and four.
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So she was 14 when he started engaging in intercourse with her.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
No, not perhaps. We really know that totalitarian statists do the things they do because they sincerely think they are doing the right thing for the state. We also really know that genocides occur for religious reasons (Conquistadores, Balkans), ethnic reasons (Armenia, Rwanda) and reasons that border on insanity (the Holocaust). Stalin never used atheism as an excuse for any pogrom or things like he did in Ukraine... he used politics and statism.
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But had he not been an atheist, would he have thought that destroying religion was the right thing to do for the state?

My apologies, it really wasn't my intention to hi-jack the thread with a debate on Stalin. I agree that it shows totalitarianism is a problem, and I don't think Stalin did what he did just because he was an atheist - as if atheism by nature leads to such atrocities. My point was only as a comparison to the suggestion that the guy in the OP did what he did because of religion - as if religion by its nature leads to such atrocities.
 
Egg said:
But had he not been an atheist, would he have thought that destroying religion was the right thing to do for the state?

My apologies, it really wasn't my intention to hi-jack the thread with a debate on Stalin. I agree that it shows totalitarianism is a problem, and I don't think Stalin did what he did just because he was an atheist - as if atheism by nature leads to such atrocities. My point was only as a comparison to the suggestion that the guy in the OP did what he did because of religion - as if religion by its nature leads to such atrocities.
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At the risk of pushing things even more "off the rail", I'd like to offer the idea that Stalin did what he did because he may have been a power hungry paranoid, and perhaps saw the Church(s) as a potential enemy, fighting for control over the people.

ETA: Religion does not automatically create evil people. It does, in many cases, set the stage that allows evil people to take advantage of others.
 
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I think the annoying part is how often religion is excused from rational thought.


If I was to say, "I must drink human blood to be clean", I'm certain most people would find that statement bizarre and unnerving. I'm certain most would ask for an explanation or just stay clear.

If I was to say, "My dog told me that I must drink human blood to be clean", I'm certain I would be asked to seek psychiatic help.

If I was to say, "My god told me that I must drink human blood to be clean of sin, and that blood should be the blood of his son...", what would be the common response?
 
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Egg said:
Perhaps...although he was never called to account for his actions so it's hard to know what reasons he might have given. Do you suppose he would still have had thousands of priests killed if he had believed the things they preached? Who knows? Who knows if the guy in the OP would have raped his daughter without being able to justify it in his mind by inventing religious excuses? Perhaps he could have used the excuse that he was passing on more of his own genes had he believed in the notion of "selfish gene" or used the excuse that he wasn't responsible for his actions if he believed in determinism. Who knows what such a sick mind might be capable of twisting round to fit such actions?
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Well stalin never publicly claimed that he killed people base on thier religious beliefs.
But the priest stated in court that he raped his daughter for religious reasons.

I'm sure he could have used different excuses but he didn't. And in the past religion has been used as an excuse for great attrocities. You can argue all you want about the veracity of thier Scottsmanhood, but the fact remains that they did these things under the flag of religion.

I've heard of people killing other people because they believe in a different god, but can you tell me of an incident where an athiest killed a religious person because the they believed in a god?
 
I've heard of people killing other people because they believe in a different god, but can you tell me of an incident where an athiest killed a religious person because the they believed in a god?
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Columbine?
 
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