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They did it with mirrors

Joined
Jun 5, 2002
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It turns out that the old master painters were not as clever with the manual dexterity of the brushes as we first thought. But they certainly were very clever with the ingenuity. At first I thought it was a stupid theory, but now I realize that all the tools the old master had were very simple and very low tech.
The theory is they had help with lenses or concave mirrors. If someone stands outside bathed in light, an image can be projected inside onto a wall, upside down. That projected image can then be copied.
image536817x.jpg

"David Hockney, one of our best-known artists, believes that the Old Masters used the early technology of optics and kept it secret. "
David Hockey's theory here

CDR
 
I did notice the perspective of the fresos and murals to be rather sloppy, and all those left handed subjects were food for thought on the canvasses. Suggesting there really may of been a little cheating with something as simple concave mirror and not the not necessarily the whole kit and caboodle "camera obsura".
There nothing wrong with a few good old fashioned trade secrets, especially amongst artists and magicians.

CDR
 
crocodile deathroll said:
I did notice the perspective of the fresos and murals to be rather sloppy, and all those left handed subjects were food for thought on the canvasses. Suggesting there really may of been a little cheating with something as simple concave mirror and not the not necessarily the whole kit and caboodle "camera obsura".
There nothing wrong with a few good old fashioned trade secrets, especially amongst artists and magicians.

CDR

Did you read any of the information provided from the links I posted?
 
Lavie Enrose said:
Did you read any of the information provided from the links I posted?
Yes I did, I found them interesting!
Thanks:)

But I thought a far simpler method the old masters could easily of utilized:

By erecting a canvas partition the artist could just light a simple wax candle and seat the model between the candle and the canvas partition. Both the model and the canvas would be positioned between the artist and the candle. The candle would then cast a nice dark silhouette on the canvas of the model for the artist to trace around. I could even make a taylor made cut out mask of the model's face and get the facial features such as the eyes and mouth in perfect position as well.

I did not do any research on this at all, it is just some idea I invented myself. But I think I am definitely no cleverer than Leonardo D'Vinci. So why should he not be just as inventive as I am as all the tools I used would of been available to him?

CDR
 
La Vie,

Those links were to really crummy, easily refuted poor arguments.


I quote from the first link, hoodwinked by Hockeny:

"For example, Sweet does not point out that murals, ceilings, self-portraits and moving objects all elude Hockney's mirror-projection method"

Apparantly he's never heard of a cartoon. A cartoon is what you create before you paint a big mural or ceiling. It's paper.

To use hockney's method, you'd trace a reflected camera obscura image onto paper. Then, using an image enlarger, you'd make various enlarged panels of parts of the art on seperate sheets of paper. The image enlarger would be made of wood with a set of levers, you trace an image on the small side, and it gets enlarged by the end of the levers with the crayon.

Once you have your individual pages from the grid of your image, you take a little spiked wheel and perforate the paper along the lines of your drawing. You affix your pages properly aligned to the grid on the wall or ceiling you're painting. You can do this with wax or gum, or tape!

You then take a porous bag of charcoal, and pound it on the paper. The places where you perforated holes will let the charcoal through. This is called a "cartoon" of your image. You then paint, knowing that you have accurately reflected the perspective of your original. AND you did it with tools that were all used during Leonardo's time!



The secondlink is merely a set of Ad Hom's against Hockney, so I am unable to substantively address them. They merely state that Hockney failed to prove his assertion, and then start flinging attacks like :



"...we can see why [Hockney's] reputation has been in freefall in recent years

...

"Hockney's own painting would be laughable were it not taken seriously by the art establishment."


His own attempts at drawing and painting are so incredibly inept, lame - talent less and skill-less - that the root cause of his theory must be a seething jealousy for those who can do, with the naked eye, what he can't do even with his optical aids.
"

The third also seems to refute the general impression one gets to Hockney, but not the specifics of Hockney's arguments. In his book, Hockney is not merely saying the masters "cheated" by tracing things. He is making a more subtle point, that use of these technologies INFLUENCED the style of painting that was popular at the time. A camera obscura INFLUENCED art, because once an artist saw it, it could not be unseen. The reality made available by optics for the first time, and forever afterword, FOCUSED the point of view of all art in the eye of the observer. Previously in art, perspective bounced all around. But single-point perspective was the defining change in art at that time, and it can undoubtably be traced to the new science of optics.
 
Artists today have it much, much simplier. They just take a photo to the zerox machine and voila- they're ready to start painting.

Like the old masters, if it could be done this there's no need for any evidence that actually is done this way.

But I still can't figure out how Michaelango got god to stand still long enough to paint his projected image.
 
A recent "Scientific American" article ("Optics and Realism in Reneissance Art", Dec. 2004) considered Hockney's theory, and concluded that, although interesting, it is not likely to be true for various technical reasons.
 

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