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The Walmart Cometh

Kopji

Philosopher
Kopji
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
8,004
...To our quaint little town...
The 'Walmart' subject is probably not worth opening a new thread but here it is. Feel free to take a break from big city politics and the war in Iraq to indulge in small town America.

The Walmart 'big box' issue has been a hot political topic this year: Walmart would like to open one of their large format stores here. Being the quaint small mountain town we are (sarcasm), this was decided against last September by the local city council. In most places that would be that, but this is Arizona. The issue is now before all the voters as a special election - a one item election - to let Big Walmart in or not.

For clarity, this is known locally as 'proposition 100'

Now, keeping with longstanding (stupid) Arizona tradition, voting "yes" means saying "no" to Walmart, and voting "no" means yes to Walmart. But that is beside the point.

To simplify later confusion and repeating myself, voting "NO" on prop 100 means "let Walmart build a huge new store on the far side of town", and voting YES means to "uphold what the city council already did last September in keeping them out."

IMHO, Arizonians are a pretty laid back bunch of people most of the time: People work hard, get dirty on weekends, spend their spare money on horses, sometimes raise chickens in residential areas if they are really evil. There is a definite Libertarian mindset here, even among 'liberals'. Arizona is one of the few states that regularly has a checkbox for Libertarian candidates. Even republicans tend to favor trade with Cuba.

But that is beside the point too.

I was ready, until yesterday, to just vote "no". I don't like Walmart much, but I like free market forces more, and see them as a good long term thing. Except for yesterday's paper.

After several weeks of usually good natured and rational debate back and forth, Walmart showed a side that makes me question if they are capable of being 'good neighbors'.

Yesterday's paper carried a full page ad, featuring Nazi's burning books and comparing that to citizens who would vote 'yes'. Today's paper had a second full page ad. Photo attached below.

The text reads:
SHOULD WE LET GOVERNMENT TELL US HOW TO WORSHIP?
How - or if - we choose to worship is a basic freedom. Like what
we choose to read, what groups we choose to join, where we
choose to live and so on. That's because we choose to limit our
government's ability to restrict our choices.

Now Flagstaff's government is asking us to allow them to place
restrictions on where and how we choose to shop.

That's just wrong.

Why should we allow government to restrict how and where we spend our money? What choices will government take away from us next?

Proposition 100 needs to be stopped, because choice is a freedom worth keeping.

Paid for by Protect Flagstaff's Future - Major funding by Wal-Mart(Bentonville, AR)
Click to expand...

Hopefully with this logic, the thread will not become a discussion on legalizing prostitution or allowing X rated movie theaters next to the Catholic church.

Maybe this was an emotional decision, but I changed my vote to 'yes' today. A company capable and willing to promote this kind of propaganda is not one I want nearby, if I can do something about it.
 
I don't see a problem with their argument.

It's a shame people like you vote like this.
 
I know, I'm bad but at least I don't free range chickens.
 
Those are hilarious ads! I so want to write for them! "Every day in Communist Switzerland, fifty newborns are slaughtered for meat because the government tells the Swiss where to buy their razors, tube socks, and garden hoses. Don't turn America into another Nazi Empire under Ming the Merciless: vote to allow Walmart in, and shop freely wherever you want to. It's what Jesus and your deceased pets would have wanted. Voting the other way is like spitting on the graves of all our brave firefighters."
 
Wallmart is against coercion regarding

"what groups we choose to join"

Naturally, should you choose to join a UNION as a WalMart employee, you would find some major concerns arising among your managers and the corporate muck-a-mucks. In fact, if the workers of an entire store signed UNION CARDS, that store might suddenly close (due to lack of 'profitable shopping' by the surrounding community). WalMart maintains a group of UNION-BUSTERS that is sent wherever they are needed for derailing and restricting all legitimate efforts to organize workers.

This is from first-hand knowledge, as a WalMart manager.
In fact, WalMart produced a training video which offers managers details of how to spot suspicious UNION-FORMING activities, and to report such.

Now, I'm not saying that UNIONIZATION is a good or bad thing, but for WalMart to use this type of argument in their efforts to get stores opened is the ultimate in hypocrisy.
 
I'm still trying to find a copy of Tuedsay's paper with the Nazi book burning thing. It includes someone with tape over their mouth. I heard about it from my daughter, the ads are all the talk at school. They even showed a 1930's propaganda film from Germany. Nice to see kids interested in current events. :D

We've had our newspaper disappear before when there was tasty news. It's those thieving early morning joggers... humm maybe I'll set a trap.

Well the vets are up in arms today, looking for an apology on page one. Something about Walmart minimizing their WW2 sacrifices to make a buck. Whiners.

Of course, Walmart is your typical corporate whore and just donates tons of money without much regard to what's being said in their name. It takes a big company to donate a couple hundred thousand dollars and not even feel the need to read the ads.

They are not exactly a poster child for liberty, human rights, and freedom - considering most of their stock is shipped from China.

The hypocrisy meter goes way off the scale on this one, to the point of being pretty funny. Like, I'd use this same argument to eliminate zoning for adult stores or allowing open prostitution. Yeah, those are also big 'free shopping' freedom issues here - not.

A local radio station DJ got hauled in last year for doing a live air feed during the opening of a new strip joint downtown. Apparently there's some obscure law about promoting prostitution. They stopped the broadcast and arrested him live.

There IS a really good story on the chickens. It involves a popular local Fundy pastor who lives nearby. I've already said too much, this is a small town.
 
I think this is definite proof that there isn't life after death.

If there was, I'd have to think that old man Walton would be back from the grave by now looking for some payback for what those he left in charge of his company have done to it...
 
Being a 'good community neighbor' seems like an idea that could work well alongside a libertarian outlook. Maybe that's not a serious enough thought to consider though...

Beats me why they think calling potential customers 'Nazis' is gonna be a good strategy. I'm really looking forward to the next ad. Maybe it will be able to work in guns or abortions. :D
 
What is wrong with letting people vote with their money?

If Walmart comes to town and nobody want it, Walmart will leave from lack of business. If a lot of people want to shop at Walmart, why do the rest (even if it is a large majority) think they have the right to deny the choice of shopping to the Walmart fans.

I hate Walmart. Their stores are awful. I do not like their union busting. I do not like their drug policies. I do not like the way they cause artist to self censor if they want to sell in Walmart. I hate shopping there but I will admit that at times I needed to save money and bought stuff there.

However, I hate the discrimination against Walmart. I believe in economic freedom. People should be able to shop at Walmart or not. If more people were like me, Walmart would have more failed stores.

CBL
 
Kopji said:
Beats me why they think calling potential customers 'Nazis' is gonna be a good strategy.
Click to expand...
How 'bout calling 'em "racists" (now we have the kettle bubbling!)?
Flagstaff City, Arizona Statistics and Demographics (US Census 2000)
Flagstaff Population: 52,894 100.00%

Sex and Age
Male 26,226 49.58%
Female 26,668 50.42%
Median age (years) 26.8

Race
One race 51,351 97.08%
White 41,214 77.92%
Black or African American 927 1.75%
Click to expand...
Where's Flagstaff's diversity? Did y'all run the uppity black folks outta town for leering at white women?

Link
 
Sushi said:
I don't see a problem with their argument.
Click to expand...

Then you don't know propaganda when you see it.

It's a shame people like you vote like this.
Click to expand...

Yes, we should shut-up and do what our corporate overlords say.
 
Comrade Tony said:
Then you don't know propaganda when you see it.
Click to expand...

Blatant propaganda can ultimately have a sound argument behind it.

Yes, we should shut-up and do what our corporate overlords say.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said!
 
Sushi said:
Blatant propaganda can ultimately have a sound argument behind it.
Click to expand...

It can, absolutely. That doesn't change the fact that it is propaganda.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said!
Click to expand...

Those are the implications of your statement.
 
Kopji said:
Being a 'good community neighbor' seems like an idea that could work well alongside a libertarian outlook. Maybe that's not a serious enough thought to consider though...

Beats me why they think calling potential customers 'Nazis' is gonna be a good strategy. I'm really looking forward to the next ad. Maybe it will be able to work in guns or abortions. :D
Click to expand...

New Corrollary to Godwin's Law:
Even out in the real world, when trying to argue against a particular stance, someone will call the other side "Nazis."
 
Unions are bad for business and bad for the economy. The only thing unions are good for are the few thugs that get the select union jobs. They artificially inflate wages causing prices to rise and employment to go down. The minimum wage does the same thing.

If Wal-Mart had all union employees then the people most hurt would be the low income shoppers that would lose a greater portion of their income paying the inflated prices. Wal-Mart is a good entry level job for most people or a part time job for retirees. Like CBL4, I personally avoid the place whenever possible, but I still recognize the value it provides to others.

Capitalism:
nobody is forced to buy their products
nobody is forced to work there
nobody is forced to sell their products there
anybody can compete with them

If Wal-Mart can't find competent employees at their existing wage rates then they will be forced to raise the wage to attract better people. If they sell garbage that nobody wants then they will have to change their inventory or go out of business.
 
Moliere said:


Capitalism:
nobody is forced to buy their products
nobody is forced to work there
nobody is forced to sell their products there
anybody can compete with them
Click to expand...

True, true, true and false...
 
Jorghnassen said:
True, true, true and false...
Click to expand...

I'm not saying they would be successful competing against them, only that they are open to trying. Target, JC Penny, Mervyn's, Sears and KMart are certainly giving it a go.
 
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