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The US Iraq exit strategy

I believe it goes.

You start a conversation you can’t even finish it.
You’re talkin’ a lot, but you’re not sayin’ anything.
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.
Say something once, why say it again?

Psycho killer,
Qu’est que c’est
Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better
Run run run run run run run away.
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Talking Heads Aside, whats your point?
 
a_unique_person said:
"Run away!....Run away!....Run away!....!!!!!"
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Monty Python aside, I think it'll be more like:
"Run away!....Run away!....Run away!....!!!!! (deny that you've run away)"
 
a_unique_person said:
Monty Python.
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Brave Sir Robin ran away,
Bravely ran away, away.
When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly, he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin.
He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge
He is sneaking away and buggering up--

etc.
 
The US is currently engaged in building no less than fourteen massive military bases in Iraq. It is quite obvious that the person who decided to build those bases does not see the US military "running away" any time soon. It's also quite obvious that since that decision was taken, the people who have been making the decisions have learned that you cannot invade a country like Iraq and ignore the advice of people who know the history and the culture of the region, and ignore them is exactly what they did.

This administration never intended to withdraw its troops from Iraq, but never would have believed how deeply in the ◊◊◊◊ it would find itself 12 months after the fall of Saddam. If the US had thought about an "escape strategy" to use if everything went wrong then it would never have disbanded the entire Iraqi army.

The only way out for the US is to genuinely relinquish political control to the Iraqis, stop building its fourteen new military bases and make it quite clear to the Iraqis and everybody else that they are serious about withdrawing US troops ASAP AND equally serious about relinguishing political control over the future of Iraq. Robert M Pirsig told a story about a tribe of hunters who caught monkeys by making a hole in a coconut just big enough for a monkeys hand, and stuffing the coconut with sweetmeats. The monkey would put his hand in the coconut and grab the sweetmeats, but then be unable to withdraw his hand. The hunters then easily catch the monkey because the monkeys own greed is so powerful that it cannot bring itself to let go of the sweetmeat and thus withdraw its hand and escape, regardless of how fearful it becomes of the hunter coming to get it. The coconut is Iraq, effective control of Iraqi politics, oil and territory is the sweetmeat, and I think we all know who the monkeys are.

Right now the US cannot seem to decide which it wants the most; an effective means of escape from Iraq or the control over Iraqi oil and politics which lured the US to invade Iraq in the first place. From the US POV, "Cutting and running" isn't so bad because of the consequences for Iraq, but because it means the US will have gained nothing at all from the war.
 
JustGeoff said:
The US is currently engaged in building no less than fourteen massive military bases in Iraq.
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What's the source of this information? I've read of 14 bases being considered for upgrade and permanent occupation but not that any are under construction. News reports make it sound as if U.S. personnel are engaged mostly in self-protection.
 
JustGeoff said:

This administration never intended to withdraw its troops from Iraq, but never would have believed how deeply in the ◊◊◊◊ it would find itself 12 months after the fall of Saddam. If the US had thought about an "escape strategy" to use if everything went wrong then it would never have disbanded the entire Iraqi army.
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It is a poser. What level of the army would serve US interests any better than the "police" they are training (who run away at the first shot -- better that than shooting at US troops anyway).

Either we decide this is still war, and let the army pursue it as such, or quagmire is an understatement. From a US resident's view, the only upside is we are fighting there rather than here. And I'd think people who might otherwise be suicide bomber types might be drawn like moths to an open flame for the chance to actually die in a glorious (rather than venal) manner. Who knows on that one?


The only way out for the US is to genuinely relinquish political control to the Iraqis, stop building its fourteen new military bases and make it quite clear to the Iraqis and everybody else that they are serious about withdrawing US troops ASAP AND equally serious about relinguishing political control over the future of Iraq.
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I'd say no way with GWB etal. Those 14 bases will become 28, and we won't be leaving anytime soon -- until the reserves run out, say. Appeasers may try another tack, which will last until our strategic grasp on oil supplies requires real military force to ensure.


Right now the US cannot seem to decide which it wants the most; an effective means of escape from Iraq or the control over Iraqi oil and politics which lured the US to invade Iraq in the first place. From the US POV, "Cutting and running" isn't so bad because of the consequences for Iraq, but because it means the US will have gained nothing at all from the war.
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The (I believe, Syrian) despot Assad, and of course Saddam, had the balls to do what has to be done to keep your opponents frightened enough they don't bother you the second time. The US politicians have never had the courage to do so, although so far it has not been a real issue; Vietnam was worthless ground. I predict it will become issue number 1 when the oil crunch hits.
 
Lemastre said:
What's the source of this information? I've read of 14 bases being considered for upgrade and permanent occupation but not that any are under construction. News reports make it sound as if U.S. personnel are engaged mostly in self-protection.
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I read it in todays Indepenent newspaper.
 
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_6117.shtml


Let's Make Enemies: US Failure in Iraq

The CPA has also confirmed that after June 30, the $18.4 billion the US government is spending on reconstruction will be administered by the US Embassy in Iraq. The money will be spent over five years and will fundamentally redesign Iraq's most basic infrastructure, including its electricity, water, oil and communications sectors, as well as its courts and police. Iraq's future governments will have no say in the construction of these core sectors of Iraqi society. Retired Rear Adm. David Nash, who heads the Project Management Office, which administers the funds, describes the $18.4 billion as "a gift from the American people to the people of Iraq." He appears to have forgotten the part about gifts being something you actually give up. And in the same eventful week, US engineers began construction on fourteen "enduring bases" in Iraq, capable of housing the 110,000 soldiers who will be posted here for at least two more years. Even though the bases are being built with no mandate from an Iraqi government, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy chief of operations in Iraq, called them "a blueprint for how we could operate in the Middle East."

Taken together, these latest measures paint a telling picture of what a "free Iraq" will look like: The United States will maintain its military and corporate presence through fourteen enduring military bases and the largest US Embassy in the world. It will hold on to authority over Iraq's armed forces, its security and economic policy and the design of its core infrastructure--but the Iraqis can deal with their decrepit hospitals all by themselves, complete with their chronic drug shortages and lack of the most basic sanitation capacity. (US Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson revealed just how low a priority this was when he commented that Iraq's hospitals would be fixed if the Iraqis "just washed their hands and cleaned the crap off the walls.")

....

On nights when there are no nearby explosions, we hang out at the hotel, jumping at the sound of car doors slamming. Sometimes we flick on the news and eavesdrop on a faraway debate about whether invading Iraq has made Americans safer. Few seem interested in the question of whether the invasion has made Iraqis feel safer, which is too bad because the questions are intimately related. As Khamis says, "It's not the war that caused the hatred. It's what they did after. What they are doing now."
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JustGeoff said:
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_6117.shtml
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Seemes to be a lot of"quotes" (anonymous or identified) here these days without opinions from the poster, which one has to assume is the same as the quote.

Also seems to me that the "they" in the above is not clearly identified, yet obviously the USA, in spite of the fact that the US wants nothing more than to leave Iraq. So the writer can only be yet another supporter of islamic facists who would rather not have a democratic government in Iraq. What exactly does JustGeoff think? Support those who obviously, by their own statements, will kill anyone who opposes them even indirectly by working for a living in a government friendly to the USA?

I propose that JustGeoff is another prime example of the apologists for all the mindless killers, and who represents the most fundamental reason why such killers can sustain themselves in what could otherwise be a reasonably civilized planet.
 
Re: Re: The US Iraq exit strategy

Elind said:


Are you simply too shy to say that you are geographically challenged and are really talking about your friends in Spain?
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Considering it was always a politically unpopular move in the first place, and he promised to withdraw, it is not running away. It is just doing what the people of Spain really wanted all along.
 
Re: Re: Re: The US Iraq exit strategy

a_unique_person said:


Considering it was always a politically unpopular move in the first place, and he promised to withdraw, it is not running away. It is just doing what the people of Spain really wanted all along.
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Yes I have to agree. They want to run - run away. What else is there to say? cluck cluck (as in chicken speak). Perhaps, for the conspiracy buffs on the board, Spain has a little secret deal with Osama. He will give them the names of all the recent bombers (seems they are doing pretty well, surprisingly well, in that regard) and Osama won't blow up any more civilians in Spain, for now.

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Screw Spain.
 
So what happens if the people of Iraq come next January democratically elect a government which is hostile to the interests of the US? Will US troops just quietly pack up and go home when asked to do so?
 
Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better
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Huh. I never knew there was a "far" at the end. I've played that song on guitar or bass quite literally hundreds of times (it's a staple of our band :))...

Also:
"I can't seem to face up to the facts..."
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The US Iraq exit strategy

Elind said:


Yes I have to agree. They want to run - run away. What else is there to say? cluck cluck (as in chicken speak). Perhaps, for the conspiracy buffs on the board, Spain has a little secret deal with Osama. He will give them the names of all the recent bombers (seems they are doing pretty well, surprisingly well, in that regard) and Osama won't blow up any more civilians in Spain, for now.

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Screw Spain.
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No, they never wanted to be caught up in such a patently absurd adventure in the first place.
 
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