The United States Needs . . . Libertarianism!

MrFrankZito

Thinker
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
226
It's time this country dug down and found some good old fashioned libertarianism within itself.

As such, we should:

1. Legalize adult drug use, including steroids and ephedra.
2. Legalize adult prostitution.
3. Legalize euthanasia, whether by a doctor or a friend/relative.
4. Legalize gay marriage via federal constitutional amendment.
5. Repeal helmet and seatbelt laws.
6. Enact legislation to prevent people from suing tobacco companies, alcohol producers and fast food restaurants.
7. Abolish the FCC.
8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior.
9. Federally amend the Constitution to permit ownership of assault weapons (though background checks and other measures to keep guns from criminals must remain strictly intact and harshly enforced).
10. Repeal obscenity laws with respect to everything except legitimate snuff films and child films.

After those 10 steps are taken, personal liberty in this country would finally be on the rise, and the pathetic "nanny state" would be in decline.
 
Huh?

Diogenes said:
I wonder whose sock this is?

Why do you assume it's a sock? Did I miss something? It is just possible there are a few libertarians out there. There, consider that the straight line.
 
"8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior."

Which laws would those be?
 
crimresearch said:
"8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior."

Which laws would those be?
Sodomy laws?
 
crimresearch said:
"8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior."

Which laws would those be?

Sado-mascohists sometimes tread a fine line between legal and illegal.
 
I know there are a couple of cases where some judge has applied battery statutes to S&M... I don't see how that could hold up without shutting down any consensual contact sport.
 
WWFStern said:

5. Repeal helmet and seatbelt laws.
I would prefer that my children ride on the roof, I will provide handles for them to grip.....This would be ok under a libertarian government? On sundays they want to be towed behind the car on skateboards, can that be worked into the new laws too?
 
crimresearch said:
I know there are a couple of cases where some judge has applied battery statutes to S&M... I don't see how that could hold up without shutting down any consensual contact sport.

It would certainly make engrossing trial transcripts.

Defense: "Did you or did you not ask my client to smear your testicles in Ben-Gay then spank you with a riding crop?"

Witness: "Well, I didn't ask since I was gagged at the time. But I didn't mind when she did, or when she brought her friend in on it."
 
Originally posted by WWFStern
It's time this country dug down and found some good old fashioned libertarianism within itself.

As such, we should:

1. Legalize adult drug use, including steroids and ephedra.

All drugs? So parents can blitz their kids with antibiotics as they wish? What is the basis for a claim of "informed consent" when a person is helplessly addicted? Can we then have accross the board drug testing for anyone in a sensitive position?

2. Legalize adult prostitution.

Cool.

3. Legalize euthanasia, whether by a doctor or a friend/relative.

Ummmm "but he said he wanted to die". Within limits, yes.

4. Legalize gay marriage via federal constitutional amendment.

No. The constitution is silent on the issue so it is up to the states. I am against using the Constitution to support the cause de jour. PS. it wouldn't pass. Are you suggesting ammendment by fiat?

5. Repeal helmet and seatbelt laws.

Issue for the States but provided there is a "do not medically help idiots" rider I view this as natural selection at work and am ok with it.

6. Enact legislation to prevent people from suing tobacco companies, alcohol producers and fast food restaurants.

And gun companies too? Seems like license to commit felonies. Tell me, if a company management conspires to remove assets thereby destroying your investment you wouldn't want to sue? Philip Morris owns Kraft. Suppose you find pig genitiles in your Velvetta during your annual Superbowl bash, you don't think that you shold be able to sue?

7. Abolish the FCC.

Excellent. Let's all broadcast on the same frequency. Particularly emergency frequencies.

8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior.

Those are........

9. Federally amend the Constitution to permit ownership of assault weapons (though background checks and other measures to keep guns from criminals must remain strictly intact and harshly enforced).

Define "assult". Then tell me how this is different from the current state of affairs.

10. Repeal obscenity laws with respect to everything except legitimate snuff films and child films.

Those are.... You mean things like not opening a tittie bar within 500 feet of a school? Stuff like that?

Edit to add: Define "snuff film". Is a tape of a person being beheaded a "snuff film"? Are you suggesting that the internet be policed to prevent such things from being made available? How large a government would you want?



After those 10 steps are taken, personal liberty in this country would finally be on the rise, and the pathetic "nanny state" would be in decline.

Your notion of "liberty" is rather banal.
 
WWFStern said:

3. Legalize euthanasia, whether by a doctor or a friend/relative.

*snip*

10. Repeal obscenity laws with respect to everything except legitimate snuff films..
If I can elect to end my life, why can't I elect to allow someone to brutally kill me while my friends videotape it? Your laws limit my right to use my death to entertain weirdos.
 
I would be happy to support these 10 steps, if my family and I could be immediately transported into the future 1000 years or whenever those taking advantage of many of them were naturally selected out of the gene pool. ;)
 
"8. Eliminate all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual behavior."

Which laws would those be?

How about laws forbidding incest? I have no problem with incest committed between consenting adults. It's none of my business. I don't endorse it, by any stretch, but I don't think that every legal behavior requires my endorsement.

I would prefer that my children ride on the roof, I will provide handles for them to grip.....This would be ok under a libertarian government? On sundays they want to be towed behind the car on skateboards, can that be worked into the new laws too?

Children are different. They are incapable of legal consent. Thus, they cannot legally consent to put their lives at risk by not wearing a seatbelt or helmet. Adults, however, have a legal right to say, "I want to make a dangerous choice, and I'm willingly putting my life at risk." Seatbelt and helmet laws, when applied to adults, infringes on an adult's right to put his/her life at grave risk.

All drugs? So parents can blitz their kids with antibiotics as they wish? What is the basis for a claim of "informed consent" when a person is helplessly addicted? Can we then have accross the board drug testing for anyone in a sensitive position?

Once again, children are a different issue. Children cannot consent to put their lives at grave risk. Adults, however, can consent to that. If an adult makes a dangerous choice to use drugs, they deserve what they get. If they get addicted, it's their own fault. They have nobody to blame but themselves. And, it's not the government's responsibility to protect people from themselves, and pre-emptively outlaw possibly dangerous choices. Do the drug laws save lives? I think so. But, they also inhibit freedom, namely the freedom for an adult to choose to use cocaine. And then, based upon that terrible choice, if that person dies, it's their own fault and they made their decision. That's freedom; casualties are inherent to the concept of liberty.

Issue for the States but provided there is a "do not medically help idiots" rider I view this as natural selection at work and am ok with it.

That's exactly my point: The government has no responsibility to protect people from themselves and their bad choices. The government is not in the business of enacting laws for peoples' own good. The government is there to protect me from you, and protect this country from other countries. Period. If you want to flush your life down the toilet, the government shouldn't be clogging the pipes trying to stop you.

And gun companies too? Seems like license to commit felonies. Tell me, if a company management conspires to remove assets thereby destroying your investment you wouldn't want to sue? Philip Morris owns Kraft. Suppose you find pig genitiles in your Velvetta during your annual Superbowl bash, you don't think that you shold be able to sue?

My statement was overly broad, and therefore flawed. My objection is to people suing tobacco companies because they got lung cancer, or suing alcohol providers because a loved one got killed by a drunk driver, or suing McDonalds because they are morbidly obese. Tobacco companies, alcohol providers and fast food restaurants provide a product. They are not responsible for the misuse of their product, nor the negative consequences their product might cause, as long as they are open about those negative consequences. In my view, there is no reason in the world to ban a pain reliever that instantly kills 90% of users. Put a warning about the 90% death thing on the label (probably 2-3 HUGE warnings) and let people make their own choices. And, if people die from using the product, it isn't the company's fault.

Those are.... You mean things like not opening a tittie bar within 500 feet of a school? Stuff like that?

That, and other things. The Justice Department is cracking down on pornography that it considers to be obscene. I think it is ludicrous. As I wrote, the only things that are obscene, in my view, are child porn and snuff films. That isn't what the DOJ is cracking down on, and so, in my view, they are currently aiming to curtail protected liberty.
 
1. While current drug laws go overboard, drugs shouldn't be [/i]completely[/i] unregulated. That would be a public safety nightmare.

2. Prostitution itself should be legal, but public solicitation is an area in which regulation is appropriate.

3. Euthanasia should be legal, but highly regulated.

4. Same sex marriages are not libertarian issue. Allow civil unions, leave it up to states whether they call them "marriages" or not.

5. There are some public interests implicated in helmet and seatbelt use.

6. Giving immunity to certain industries is just silly. Eliminating certain causes of actions is one thing, but why should certain industries get special treatment?

7. The FCC has been going overboard, but regulation of the EM spectrum is necessary.

8. For the most part, I agree with this one, but one can quibble about just what "consensual" is. If someone cheats on their partner, and passes on an STD, is that "consensual"?

9. Don't let them win the nomenclature battle. "Assault weapon"? As opposed to what? "friendly poke weapon"? All weapons, absent a clear overriding public safety risk, should be legal.

10. Child porn and obscenity are separate issues. "Obscenity" is just an excuse to ignore the First Amendment.


Crimresearch
What sodomy laws? Last I looked there weren't any valid sodomy laws in the US.
So all sodomy laws have been found unconstitutional? Including those not distinguishing between homsexual and heterosexual acts? Including military laws?

I know there are a couple of cases where some judge has applied battery statutes to S&M... I don't see how that could hold up without shutting down any consensual contact sport.
Hitting someone is hardly the same as engaging in an activity likely to result in someone being hit. But there is the issue of where the line between S&M and domestic abuse is. A lot of states allow prosecution of domestic abuse even if the alleged victim doesn't press charges.
 
"So all sodomy laws have been found unconstitutional? Including those not distinguishing between homsexual and heterosexual acts? Including military laws?"


Actually, the US Supreme Court ruling striking down sodomy statutes is only binding on *American* cases.
:rolleyes:
 
There are three things on this list I disagree with:

WWFStern said:
4. Legalize gay marriage via federal constitutional amendment.

The Constitution should absolutely not have anything one way or the other to say about individual human behavior. Its purpose is to grant powers to government. There's nothing in Article I Section 8 even allowing the government to license marriage in the first place. The solution is to get rid of marriage licensing, which only came about to prevent blacks from marrying whites anyway.

6. Enact legislation to prevent people from suing tobacco companies, alcohol producers and fast food restaurants.

I don't think you should have legislation saying who can't sue whom civilly. I understand your motivation, but if you're really a libertarian, you have to understand that government prohibitions don't work. There may be legitimate reasons to sue these entities, and you'd be cutting them off, or, at the very least, giving the government the power to decide who can sue and who can't.

9. Federally amend the Constitution to permit ownership of assault weapons (though background checks and other measures to keep guns from criminals must remain strictly intact and harshly enforced).

A few problems: 1) the Second Amendment already does that; 2) there's nothing in Article I Section 8 giving them the power to prevent ownership of assault weapons anyway, and 3) what the heck does it mean to "federally amend" the Constitution?

Other than that, great list!
 
crimresearch said:
What sodomy laws? Last I looked there weren't any valid sodomy laws in the US.

North Carolina (and several other states) still has laws against cohabitation. A lady was just recently indicted for violation of the law; she's currently fighting to have them declared unconstitutional.
 
Art Vandelay said:
1. While current drug laws go overboard, drugs shouldn't be [/i]completely[/i] unregulated. That would be a public safety nightmare.

Why wasn't it back when drugs were legal? And why was the nightmare of alcohol prohibition ended by simply ending prohibition?

2. Prostitution itself should be legal, but public solicitation is an area in which regulation is appropriate.

What do you mean, "public solicitation"?

5. There are some public interests implicated in helmet and seatbelt use.

Such as? If you're talking about taxes paying for their medicine, I think Ed took care of that.

6. Giving immunity to certain industries is just silly. Eliminating certain causes of actions is one thing, but why should certain industries get special treatment?

Much better than the way I said it. Thanks.

7. The FCC has been going overboard, but regulation of the EM spectrum is necessary.

But why would it have to be done by government?

And even if we assume the government involvement, why is the FCC the best way? Why couldn't we make the frequencies like private property and open them up to homesteading?

8. For the most part, I agree with this one, but one can quibble about just what "consensual" is. If someone cheats on their partner, and passes on an STD, is that "consensual"?

Not speaking for the original poster, I would say that yes, the person who passes on the STD is liable for damages.

All weapons, absent a clear overriding public safety risk, should be legal.

Another excellent way of saying it.

10. Child porn and obscenity are separate issues. "Obscenity" is just an excuse to ignore the First Amendment.

My view is, with child porn, there's no way to make it without committing abuse on someone incapable of giving consent. The Supreme Court has already ruled that models of age dressed up to look younger, animation, and computer simulations don't count.
 

Back
Top Bottom