The United Nations and Libya (Quadaffi)

[boyntonstu]

The UN is finished as a moral source (as if it ever was).

"It is hard to believe, but less than four months before Qaddafi’s forces massacred protesters, the United Nations Human Rights Council members praised him for promoting human rights."

From this moment on, I will ignore all UN resolutions, censures, statements, etc.

AFAIAC The UN is dead meat.

See what Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority said about Libya at the UN here:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/142550

 

[Thunder]

The UN is finished as a moral source (as if it ever was).

the UNSC passed sanctions on Libya yesterday. i expect a UN enforced and approved no-fly zone over Tripoli or even all of Libya will be enacted within 7 days, if the murder from the skies continues.

 

[boyntonstu]

the UNSC passed sanctions on Libya yesterday. i expect a UN enforced and approved no-fly zone over Tripoli or even all of Libya will be enacted within 7 days, if the murder from the skies continues.

Start the dead count: NOW!

Let us see how well the UN saves lives in the next few weeks.

The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass murder of an estimated 800,000 people in the small East African nation of Rwanda. Over the course of approximately 100 days from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana on April 6 through mid-July, at least 800,000 people were killed, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate.[1] Other estimates of the death toll have ranged between 500,000 and 1,000,000,[2] or as much as 20% of the country's total population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Darfur:

"The United Nations puts the death toll at roughly 300,000, while the former U.N. undersecretary-general puts the number at no less than 400,000.(1) Up to 2.5 million Darfuris have fled their homes and continue to live in camps throughout Darfur, or in refugee camps in neighboring Chad and the Central African Republic."

http://www.savedarfur.org/pages/background

How many UN censures and resolutions total were passed condemning Rwanda and Darfur? What did the UN do to stop the genocide?

Was the violin being played at the UN as the world burned and millions were raped and slaughtered?

We now have a no fly zone. Great!

What I would like to see done is what Reagan tried to do in 1986, kill Quadaffi Duck.

Everyone in the world knew that Quadaffi was a terrorist and yet the UN rewarded him with a seat on the Human Rights Council.

"For over an decade, Libyan dictator Muammar al-Gaddafi had been involved in terrorism in Europe and elsewhere.

After December 1985 Rome and Vienna airport attacks, which killed 19 and wounded around 140, Gaddafi indicated that he would continue to support the Red Army Faction, the Red Brigades, and the Irish Republican Army as long as European countries support anti-Gaddafi Libyans.[3] The Foreign Minister of Libya also called the massacres "heroic acts".[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya

 

[MG1962]

Yes United Nations, you slackers, click those ruby slippers three times and make the problem go away

"No place like home, no place like home"

 

[portlandatheist]

Its not just that the UN is impotent to make real differences on the ground, it is also morally bankrupt. Libya is on the human rights council and gets praised by its fellow members whereas Israel is constantly condemned. In the 2006-07 session, the Human Rights Council passed one hundred percent of its condemnatory resolutions against Israel.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Its not just that the UN is impotent to make real differences on the ground, it is also morally bankrupt. Libya is on the human rights council and gets praised by its fellow members whereas Israel is constantly condemned. In the 2006-07 session, the Human Rights Council passed one hundred percent of its condemnatory resolutions against Israel.

That's because they had all bought futures in pork bellies.






(Oblique reference to the movie Trading Places)

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Its not just that the UN is impotent to make real differences on the ground, it is also morally bankrupt. Libya is on the human rights council and gets praised by its fellow members whereas Israel is constantly condemned. In the 2006-07 session, the Human Rights Council passed one hundred percent of its condemnatory resolutions against Israel.

There is quite a bit of controversy within the UN itself over these issues. I would agree that in general the UN is morally bankrupt but further state that this is an accurate reflection of the morally bankrupt status of the world's sovereign nations when looked upon as equals. The UN sucks because most of its members suck. Until most of the sovereign nations of the world are liberal democracies I doubt the UN will in practice reflect the principles of liberal democracy. This reflects a severe limitation of the UN concept if one's goal is to advance human rights. I still think the UN serves a purpose and is useful for certain activities, but agree that in general it fails to advance the cause of human rights. I do not think NATO is quite the answer either as its goals were set up along different lines and political realities. I am not currently in favor of removing ourselves from involvement with the UN but am definitely in favor of seeking alternatives to the UN as a tool for promoting human rights and putting pressure on the UN. At the least, I find in the UN Charter that Chapter 1 Article 2 Point 1 to contradict with Chapter 1 Article 2 Point 3. Respecting sovereignty and demanding internal disputes be resolved peacefully are easily at odds and in general point 1 is given more weight considering Chapter 1 Article 1 all points. Either the UN has no teeth to enforce human rights or it inherently creates conflict when members unwilling to bow to human rights refuse to cooperate.

The Libyan issue I agree is a glaring example of how a body of current sovereign nations will not reflect the principles of liberal democracy.

 

[MG1962]

Its not just that the UN is impotent to make real differences on the ground, it is also morally bankrupt. Libya is on the human rights council and gets praised by its fellow members whereas Israel is constantly condemned. In the 2006-07 session, the Human Rights Council passed one hundred percent of its condemnatory resolutions against Israel.

And how many anti Israel resolutions had passed before that? I will give you a hint....its less than one

 

[Bill Thompson]

The UN is finished as a moral source (as if it ever was).

"It is hard to believe, but less than four months before Qaddafi’s forces massacred protesters, the United Nations Human Rights Council members praised him for promoting human rights."

From this moment on, I will ignore all UN resolutions, censures, statements, etc.

AFAIAC The UN is dead meat.

See what Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority said about Libya at the UN here:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/142550

But what makes you think Qaddafi is wrong? Going against the government of Libya is punishable by death. This is a fact and is part of The Constitution.

 

[Thunder]

Libya is on the human rights council and gets praised by its fellow members whereas Israel is constantly condemned. In the 2006-07 session, the Human Rights Council passed one hundred percent of its condemnatory resolutions against Israel.

ah, another non-Israel thread that has become about Israel.

can't we have JUST ONE thread dealing with a Middle Eastern country that does NOT become another useless thread about Israel???

 

[MG1962]

ah, another non-Israel thread that has become about Israel.

can't we have JUST ONE thread dealing with a Middle Eastern country that does NOT become another useless thread about Israel???

Dont be silly - Israel is like the bacon of international politics....Its mere mention makes everything better

 

[Thunder]

Dont be silly - Israel is like the bacon of international politics....Its mere mention makes everything better

I guess for someone folks, if it ain't about Israel..it ain't worth discussing.

 

[MG1962]

I guess for someone folks, if it ain't about Israel..it ain't worth discussing.

Personally I feel that way about Madagascar

 

[geni]

How many UN censures and resolutions total were passed condemning
Rwanda and Darfur? What did the UN do to stop the genocide?

As much as anyone else other than the RPF.

Was the violin being played at the UN as the world burned and millions were raped and slaughtered?

No the UN didn't exist at that point.

What I would like to see done is what Reagan tried to do in 1986, kill Quadaffi Duck.

Regan failed. Thing is at this point it seems unlikely that anyone has any worthwhile human intelligance which means that no one really knows where
Gaddafi is

Everyone in the world knew that Quadaffi was a terrorist and yet the UN rewarded him with a seat on the Human Rights Council.

Which would be significant if the United Nations Human Rights Council wasn't somewhere below the cornish knitting association on the list of things people actualy care about.

 

[geni]

From this moment on, I will ignore all UN resolutions, censures, statements, etc.

Fair enough. I hope you never hope to fly internationaly (ICAO). Have any dealings with goods that have moved by sea (IMO) or anything to do with radiowaves or oversea post (ITU,UPU).

 

[Thunder]

From this moment on, I will ignore all UN resolutions, censures, statements, etc.

are you saying that before today, you actually recognized and respected all UN resolutions, censures, statements, etc?

 

[portlandatheist]

ah, another non-Israel thread that has become about Israel.

can't we have JUST ONE thread dealing with a Middle Eastern country that does NOT become another useless thread about Israel???

Discussing Israel wasn't my intention, discussing the UN was and its difficult to mention UNs overall bankruptcy without mentioning Israel, the conspiracy theories that have an audience there, or the membership of the human rights council just like its difficult to talk about its impotence without bringing up Darfur or Rwanda.

 

[egslim]

AFAIAC The UN is dead meat.

The UN is the main organization for cooperation between sovereign nations worldwide.

As such it's extremely important for regulation of international, relatively a-political technocratic issues like international air and sea traffic.

On moral issues the UN can only get so far as people from widely different cultures and political systems can be expected to get - usually not very.

"It is hard to believe, but less than four months before Qaddafi’s forces massacred protesters, the United Nations Human Rights Council members praised him for promoting human rights."

If you think rationally it's not so strange. Four months ago there were no protests, so no protestors for him to attack.

Now Qaddafi is in a (losing) struggle for personal survival. Democratic leaders tend to retire peacefully, but overthrown dictators often die soon after in some way.
Many people whose life is at stake would become murderous if they thought it improved their chance of survival, even if they proclaim the noblest principles from the safety of their computerchair.

 

[boyntonstu]

From my Feb 27 post:

"Start the dead count: NOW!

Let us see how well the UN saves lives in the next few weeks."

How many people have been killed as the UN fiddles?

 

[McHrozni]

And how many anti Israel resolutions had passed before that? I will give you a hint....its less than one

Considering the council was formed in 2006, I don't find that particularly surprising.

McHrozni