SatansMaleVoiceChoir
Illuminator
This is something I have been thinking about for a while, and is especially relevant at the present time; I was moved to write this by comments TAM made about 'Debunker'/'Twoofer' symbiosis, which echo my thoughts and feelings of late (cannot remember in which thread; haven't got time to look, but excellent points). What follows is purely based on opinion and personal experience.
The Current State of the Truth 'Movement'.
It is my opinion that there is no Truth Movement, as such; this term implies some sort of unified, organised group with common ideas and goals. This is not the case here. Yes, the majority would like a 'new investigation into 9/11', to varying degrees and in some shape or form - but they are not united even on this.
Of late it would seem though that the closest thing they have to a raison d'etre is 'Debunkers', and 'the JREFers' in particular.
"So what are you doing posting your information on the internet when you should be taking it to the authorities?", "What are you doing about this then, other than JAQing off?", are questions dismissed by 'Twoofers' as tired old 'JREFer' tactics for refuting a perceived argument or 'evidence'. But these are valid questions; if these people who claim to have evidence/'smoking guns' are not doing anything about it, other than trying to score points on the internet, what does this say about their evidence in the first place? Or their motives? Who are they really trying to convince? 'Truth' Rallys are few and far between with poor attendance, 'LC:FC' has sunk without making any kind of discernable ripples - popular opinion around the world is not so much not with them; but more not aware of them.
It would seem the majority of 'Truthers' are devoting their efforts to attempting to debunk 'Debunkers'. Consider CIT; it would seem for the past few months their biggest focus has not been getting their 'irrefutable' evidence out to the people/legal system, etc, but on attempting to discredit/prove wrong Reheat, or any other 'Debunker' who questions them. Why? Why does Reheat's opinion matter so much to these people? If they have the courage of their beliefs, then surely they should ignore the 'Debunkers' and press on with this crucial information.
I like to call this 'Gravy Syndrome'; before his retirement it seemed Mark Roberts was the fastest gun in JREFtown, and every "piss-hand, prairie punk" wanted a shot at the title. To prove Mark Roberts wrong and scuttle back to LCF claiming victory seemed to be the highest accolade a 'Truther' could aspire to. To what end? Surely it would make more sense to take your information public and be the 'Truther' who well and truly blew the lid off the 9/11 cover up? But no; it's more important to score points against 'JREFers'.
'JREFers'
So we come to this sub-forum. It used to be that this forum existed (in the main) as a valuable arena for refuting the lies and delusions of the 'Truthers', ensuring that they spread no further, wherever possible keeping the undecided on the straight and narrow, and occasionally converting a 'Truther' back to the light. It would seem that we are now as dependant on the 'Truthers' as they are us. 'Truther-baiting' threads are becoming more and more prevelant; a 'Truther'-provoking thread is set up waiting for one of the few 'Truthers' left on the board to take the bait. When they do, a mass of 'Debunkers' descend on them in a feeding frenzy. The 'Truthers' are beginning to recognise this - especially over at LCF. And so they should - it used to be one of their tactics.
Also, long disproven topics are being dredged up and smeared with 'Truth-bait', in an attempt to lure in 'Truthers' for entertainment, and not so much for debate it would seem.
(I will refrain in giving specific examples at the risk of offending certain posters, who I mean no ill will toward; but just look round for examples..)
I put this down to boredom. There is nowhere left for 'Truthers' to go; no new evidence and no new ideas, so certain members of the forum who miss the debate/battle/war of wits (call it what you want!) are becoming more desperate in their attempts to keep this sub-forum alive.
Breaking the Cycle/Stopping the Truth 'Movement'
Various people have posited ideas for dealing with 'Truthers', and in terms of this sub-forum, I think the best are as follows:
- If they are bringing up a subject that has been thoroughly disproven, simply post a link; don't invite further discussion unless they are bringing something new to the table.
- If they are blatantly trolling, simply do not respond - let the thread die. Lurkers will generally get the impression that nobody cares enough to reply, so the thread is not worth bothering with. Certainly don't start another thread in mockery.
And whenever dealing with 'Truthers', always attempt to be as civil as possible; if they wish to get shirty or abusive, then fine - but remember who will look like an idiot/lunatic to a lurker/casual visitor.
These are just my thoughts; I am certainly not telling anyone what to do, or how to behave.
But consider this - if we ignore all but the most genuine points/questions posted on this sub-forum, there will come a time when this sub-forum will die off. Is this such a bad thing? I think not; because I believe - based on what I have said above - without us to feed them, a very large part of the Truth 'Movement' will die with it.
Who has more to lose?
The Current State of the Truth 'Movement'.
It is my opinion that there is no Truth Movement, as such; this term implies some sort of unified, organised group with common ideas and goals. This is not the case here. Yes, the majority would like a 'new investigation into 9/11', to varying degrees and in some shape or form - but they are not united even on this.
Of late it would seem though that the closest thing they have to a raison d'etre is 'Debunkers', and 'the JREFers' in particular.
"So what are you doing posting your information on the internet when you should be taking it to the authorities?", "What are you doing about this then, other than JAQing off?", are questions dismissed by 'Twoofers' as tired old 'JREFer' tactics for refuting a perceived argument or 'evidence'. But these are valid questions; if these people who claim to have evidence/'smoking guns' are not doing anything about it, other than trying to score points on the internet, what does this say about their evidence in the first place? Or their motives? Who are they really trying to convince? 'Truth' Rallys are few and far between with poor attendance, 'LC:FC' has sunk without making any kind of discernable ripples - popular opinion around the world is not so much not with them; but more not aware of them.
It would seem the majority of 'Truthers' are devoting their efforts to attempting to debunk 'Debunkers'. Consider CIT; it would seem for the past few months their biggest focus has not been getting their 'irrefutable' evidence out to the people/legal system, etc, but on attempting to discredit/prove wrong Reheat, or any other 'Debunker' who questions them. Why? Why does Reheat's opinion matter so much to these people? If they have the courage of their beliefs, then surely they should ignore the 'Debunkers' and press on with this crucial information.
I like to call this 'Gravy Syndrome'; before his retirement it seemed Mark Roberts was the fastest gun in JREFtown, and every "piss-hand, prairie punk" wanted a shot at the title. To prove Mark Roberts wrong and scuttle back to LCF claiming victory seemed to be the highest accolade a 'Truther' could aspire to. To what end? Surely it would make more sense to take your information public and be the 'Truther' who well and truly blew the lid off the 9/11 cover up? But no; it's more important to score points against 'JREFers'.
'JREFers'
So we come to this sub-forum. It used to be that this forum existed (in the main) as a valuable arena for refuting the lies and delusions of the 'Truthers', ensuring that they spread no further, wherever possible keeping the undecided on the straight and narrow, and occasionally converting a 'Truther' back to the light. It would seem that we are now as dependant on the 'Truthers' as they are us. 'Truther-baiting' threads are becoming more and more prevelant; a 'Truther'-provoking thread is set up waiting for one of the few 'Truthers' left on the board to take the bait. When they do, a mass of 'Debunkers' descend on them in a feeding frenzy. The 'Truthers' are beginning to recognise this - especially over at LCF. And so they should - it used to be one of their tactics.
Also, long disproven topics are being dredged up and smeared with 'Truth-bait', in an attempt to lure in 'Truthers' for entertainment, and not so much for debate it would seem.
(I will refrain in giving specific examples at the risk of offending certain posters, who I mean no ill will toward; but just look round for examples..)
I put this down to boredom. There is nowhere left for 'Truthers' to go; no new evidence and no new ideas, so certain members of the forum who miss the debate/battle/war of wits (call it what you want!) are becoming more desperate in their attempts to keep this sub-forum alive.
Breaking the Cycle/Stopping the Truth 'Movement'
Various people have posited ideas for dealing with 'Truthers', and in terms of this sub-forum, I think the best are as follows:
- If they are bringing up a subject that has been thoroughly disproven, simply post a link; don't invite further discussion unless they are bringing something new to the table.
- If they are blatantly trolling, simply do not respond - let the thread die. Lurkers will generally get the impression that nobody cares enough to reply, so the thread is not worth bothering with. Certainly don't start another thread in mockery.
And whenever dealing with 'Truthers', always attempt to be as civil as possible; if they wish to get shirty or abusive, then fine - but remember who will look like an idiot/lunatic to a lurker/casual visitor.
These are just my thoughts; I am certainly not telling anyone what to do, or how to behave.
But consider this - if we ignore all but the most genuine points/questions posted on this sub-forum, there will come a time when this sub-forum will die off. Is this such a bad thing? I think not; because I believe - based on what I have said above - without us to feed them, a very large part of the Truth 'Movement' will die with it.
Who has more to lose?
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