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The Trump Presidency VII

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Skeptic Ginger

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Skeptic Ginger
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This thread is a continuation from here.
Posted By: Loss Leader




Trump Tweet this morning: "Maybe we should take their credentials away" in reference to negative news about him.

Donny Deustch (MSNBC pundit): Biggest worry, what is Trump with his narcissism capable of? Is he capable of starting a war over something that threatens his ego?

The people around the table agreed it was a real possibility.

And on that note and the reneging on the Iran agreement, clips were played last night of Shelden Adelson saying the US should drop a nuke on the desert, not hurt anyone (the guy's an idiot), and then tell Iran to stop their nuke program. Bolton as well is on the record promoting regime change in Iran.

My popcorn burned. :(
 
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logger said:
How about fighting a proxy war to kill Israelis? How about being the largest sponsor of terror around the world? How about subjugating women and children with their backward oppressive religion? How about hanging people publicly from cranes?
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Saudi Arabia?

logger said:
Why does this even need to be explained? Because the left has a soft spot for regimes like Iran, NK, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia and a few others.
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The left is soft on Russia?:jaw-dropp
 
The Trump media tweet:

The Fake News is working overtime. Just reported that, despite the tremendous success we are having with the economy & all things else, 91% of the Network News about me is negative (Fake). Why do we work so hard in working with the media when it is corrupt? Take away credentials?
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Negative == Fake, just like we all already knew.
 
dudalb said:
I think Trump's pulling out of the Iran deal was a horrid mistake, but your embrace of the Iranian Government and Hatred of Israeli is pretty extreme.
I don't like Bibi very much, but your putting all the blame on Isreali and ignoring Iran's long history of "Death to Israel" rhetoric is a bit much.
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My point is not that Israel is right or Iran is right. But that Iranians can make a strong case for US / US proxy aggression.

FWIW I was brought up a muslim, my implicit belief is Israel is wrong (I recognise my prejudice), my partner is Jewish (and far more left wing and anti Bibi than I am). I am very open to the idea that both sides are winding each other up. I believe that the religious element of the Iranian executive does not represent the beliefs or wants of most Iranians any more than Trumpism represents the majority of Americans.

But Israel is a nuclear power it probably has chemical weapons (it has certainly carried out limited chemical weapon attacks as per Skripals). Israel is far more of an existential threat to Iran than Iran is to Israel. Is there anyway that Iran could realistically be an existential threat to Israel? Israel could plaster the major cities of Iran with atomic bombs. Iran may have 'ballistic' missiles. but it does not have the missile defence systems Israel has, it does not have the warheads. How many bombings has Iran carried out in Israel? Israel is continually provoking Iran into reacting. I do not believe Israel carries out false flag attacks on the US (or the UK) but I do understand why the idea is prevalent and believable.

If the US really wanted to overthrow the current Iranian regime, love bombing would be far more effective. lift all the sanctions send in Disney, DC, HBO.
 
Planigale said:
FWIW I was brought up a muslim, my implicit belief is Israel is wrong (I recognise my prejudice), my partner is Jewish (and far more left wing and anti Bibi than I am). I am very open to the idea that both sides are winding each other up. I believe that the religious element of the Iranian executive does not represent the beliefs or wants of most Iranians any more than Trumpism represents the majority of Americans.
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True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.
But Israel is a nuclear power it probably has chemical weapons (it has certainly carried out limited chemical weapon attacks as per Skripals). Israel is far more of an existential threat to Iran than Iran is to Israel. Is there anyway that Iran could realistically be an existential threat to Israel? Israel could plaster the major cities of Iran with atomic bombs. Iran may have 'ballistic' missiles. but it does not have the missile defence systems Israel has, it does not have the warheads. How many bombings has Iran carried out in Israel? Israel is continually provoking Iran into reacting.
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I think the problem is that you're considering only large scale war. The risk that Israel is under is not one of all-out attack by Iran, but on a smaller scale... supplying terrorist groups (such as Hamas) that act against Israel with weapons and funding. These have caused hundreds of casualties over the years. So while in a large-scale military conflict Israel might have the advantage, the low-grade conflict that currently exists favors Iran.

If the US really wanted to overthrow the current Iranian regime, love bombing would be far more effective. lift all the sanctions send in Disney, DC, HBO.
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Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
 
Hard to believe Fake News news is telling the truth 9% of the time. Maybe that's just them getting the names right.
 
Concerning Iran, a timely reminder about the impressive expertise possessed by the Very Stable Genius:

Trump said:
I've studied this issue in great detail. I would say actually, greater by far than anybody else. Believe me. Oh believe me.
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youtube
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Trump Tweet this morning: "Maybe we should take their credentials away" in reference to negative news about him.
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I wonder if Trump is ignorant enough about the way the media work to believe taking away "credentials" would change anything.

"Credentials" are overrated. They get you in-person access to certain press briefings and that's about it. That in-person access is only a small part of news-gathering. At the White House - anyone's White House - you're going to be fed the party line. You might happen to observe something important, but what's said is often trivial.

I include some weasel-words because there will be exceptions, but press briefings are not where you'll find stories that will blow the town wide open. Taking away credentials would probably backfire. In a way I'd like to see him try it.
 
Segnosaur said:
True... the opinions of the average Iranian citizen probably differ from those of the leadership. But then, the average citizen is relatively powerless. The actions of the leaders are rather key when discussing Iran.

I think the problem is that you're considering only large scale war. The risk that Israel is under is not one of all-out attack by Iran, but on a smaller scale... supplying terrorist groups (such as Hamas) that act against Israel with weapons and funding. These have caused hundreds of casualties over the years. So while in a large-scale military conflict Israel might have the advantage, the low-grade conflict that currently exists favors Iran.


Which of course would not work as the leaders of Iran would not allow Disneyworld Tehran.

I do think Trump is wrong in cancelling the deal. But I'm under no illusions that Iran is somehow a "nice" player in this.
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This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
And IMHO the poster we are discussing seems not to like Israel very much anyway.
One of the criticisms of the Iranian deal I think has merit is that it does not deal with a lot of the crap that Iran does..like it sponsoring of Terrorist groups.
That does not make pulling out of the deal any less stupid, however.
 
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varwoche said:
Concerning Iran, a timely reminder about the impressive expertise possessed by the Very Stable Genius:

youtube
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I had to laugh when I saw that last night.
We have a freaking president who is a pathological liar. its' one thing to lie with a reason behind it..every President does that on occasion. But Trump lies for no reason whatsoever except to boost his ego.
And his whole "My gut feelings and instincts are more reliable then knowledge and expertise" is a recipe for disaster.
 
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LSSBB said:
And the other 91% is false according to whom?
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You dare to question what Dear Leader says?

The only thing scarier then Donald Trump is the blind ,total faith his folllowers have in him. It is truly scary. They would junk the Constution in a split second if Dear Leader told them to.
 
dudalb said:
I had to laugh when I saw that last night.
We have a freaking president who is a pathological liar. its' one thing to lie with a reason behind it..every President does that on occasion. But Trump lies for no reason whatsoever except to boost his ego.
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I bet he spent less time "studying" the Iran deal than he spends on his hair in a single day.
 
LSSBB said:
And the other 91% is false according to whom?
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I imagine anything concerning Michael Cohen is Fake News, as is anything concerning the Mueller enquiry which isn't about Trump calling it a witch-hunt. Real News is about how he's brought peace to the Korean Peninsula and de-nuclearised the Middle East.

(Oh, turns out the latter isn't actually policy.) :cool:
 
@dudalb :
This, Some people seem really naïve about the nature of the Iranian Government.
Trying to portray them as the good guy in the Mideast is ..well, just plain ignorant.
And IMHO the poster we are discussing seems not to like Israel very much anyway.
One of the criticisms of the Iranian deal I think has merit is that it does not deal with a lot of the crap that Iran does..like it sponsoring of Terrorist groups.
That does not make pulling out of the deal any less stupid, however.
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By "terroist groups" you presumably mean Hezbollah and Hamas, which many people regard as legitimate political organisations. Hamas has bad terrorist form, but then Likud used to be the Irgun so lets not get too picky. Hezbollah's great crime, of course, was to drive Israel out of Southern Lebanon - very unwelcome precedent from Israel's point of view.

Iran may not be "the good guy" but it's not the de-stabilising force in the region : that force is Gulf Arab money backing Sunni fundamentalism. In Syria they're supporting the internationally recognised government, and in Lebanon they recognise the sketchy nature of the country's government. (Of course Lebanon was built to a French design, so what do you expect.)

Real terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and Daesh don't spring from Iranian theology or Iranian influence. They spring from Israel's unlikely new partners in the Gulf (an association they may well come to regret).
 
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