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Cont: The Trump Presidency 12: The Dirty Dozen

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RolandRat

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RolandRat
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Continued from here
Posted By: Agatha


Twelve monkeys? It seems to sum up this Legislature.
 
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ttrump tweeted that he was in the Oval Office, but as someone has observed there isn't a marine outside the West Wing.
 
Pixel42 said:
I had assumed that Trump kept repeating the same dumb mistakes (e.g. about how things like tariffs work) either because everyone he'd surrounded himself with was just as ignorant as him or because they didn't dare correct him, but according to Bob Woodward's book neither is the case. People try to explain things to him all the time, and he'll nod and appear to be listening, but will then carry on as if nothing had been said. He appears to have a fact-repelling forcefield around his brain.
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Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
Click to expand...

Ha - mine's "surgary" vs "surgery".
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
Click to expand...

The correct answer is "Moops"
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

Wait, I thought they were all Roman except for Saturn & Uranus...
 
Trump has no ideas. Just years watching Foxnews. But of course when he does something they tell jim to do, then the idea is even more stuck. He will be mumbling ”wall” on the way to the impeachment hearing.
 
Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
Click to expand...

Another example of the "alternate facts" world he lives in.

ETA: if Mexico is paying for it through the billions of dollars a year we'll save, why is he asking Congress for $5 billion? Why not just wait a year, save the money, and pay for it then?
 
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trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
Click to expand...

There's an argument that I would accept claiming the first actual emperor was Tiberius. This being based on Augustus refused to call himself emperor, arguing he was merely the First Citizen, meaning most important citizen.

I also got boned on a Trivial Pursuit question once. Fluffernutter. I said peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich. The card said peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwich. So no wedge for me, apparently.


Stacyhs said:
But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
Click to expand...

And I wonder if this defense mechanism worsens (improves?) with age. There's possibly a shifting calcification, even given different starting tendencies when we're young. I like to think of myself as pretty adaptive, but maybe I'm objectively getting stubborn and unaware of it because the mechanism is... well... working.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
Click to expand...

Because there's always a tweet: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/250975772083380226?lang=en

Obama's complaints about Republicans stopping his agenda are BS since he had full control for two years. He can never take responsibility.
Click to expand...
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

Sorry to correct you,
but Mercury is Roman and is known as Hermes in Greece
Venus is the Roman goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. Known as Aphrodite in Greece
Mars is the Roman God of War
Saturn is also Roman ...known as Cronus in Greece.
Uranus is Greek as is Neptune and Pluto.
 
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