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The Supernatural Exists - a New Plan!

The Atheist

The Grammar Tyrant
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
36,354
I have finally concluded that the supernatural exists.

The world does have truly inexplicable things happening and I have taken heed of the dozens of people who e mail me on a daily basis, explaining why the MDC has not and could not be won and why the supernatural isn't obvious to those whose position starts with doubt. The MDC has always been designed to show the challenger to be fake. It is a negatively-designed test, which can only produce negative results. Ask Edge!

Since my own $2M challenge remains unclaimed, I have decided to take advantage of my inside knowledge. Those silly, pragmatic bookies still have the same odds for psychics actually telling the truth as they did last week - their odds aren't going to alter one iota because I've changed my mind.

Accordingly, I'm changing the $2M Challenge in a research fund for the paranormal. The important distinction is that as a former sceptic, I fully understand the level of evidence required and I am very sure that I can sort the few grains of wheat from the tons of chaff.

The job is easy. All I need do is find one example of the many of paranormal activity and that person will then have the opportunity of working with me in a $2M research program into the causes and effects of paranormal phenomena. As I see it, the main problem seems to have been getting mainstream interest into funding of the paranormal, which is why no serious scientific investigation has ever happened. History is littered with flawed studies and who knows what damage Randi & Banachek's academic fraud did to the chances of having paranormality investigated properly. "Skeptic", with or without the "c" is all very well, but the word literally means "to doubt". It's a little bit like being a christian and starting with an a priori, "God exists". Given that, I think it's quite obvious why the MDC is still intact. (for now, anyway)

I'll be happy to discuss the subjects with sceptics of both ilks, but my focus will be on finding the select few who are genuinely involved in paranormal phenomena. I will be changing my web pages asap to reflect this new idea, but I thought I'd introduce JREF to it first.

The most important thing, for sceptics and believers alike, is that I am a bit of a pragmatist myself.

Coming to me with a ghost story will be, as it always has been, as useful as tits on a bull. Come to me with evidence of supernatural and paranormal phenomena, properly documented, and I will enjoy working with you to establishing a research partnership, dedicated to explaining to the world the benefits of having an understanding of the supernatural. From Qi to Feng Shui to Tarot, let's rid the planet of the frauds and let people find the joy the spirit world can bring to their lives. (As The Atheist, I'm delighted to let the secret out that the spirit world rules out the christian god - I mean, these people are dead and they're in neither the christian heaven nor the hell and they are quite sure no bloke called "God" exists, although apparently Winston Churchill and Julis Caesar have some pretty staunch arguments.)

What I will be seeking - and this is where Buzzlightyear, Edge, jcraig and others come in. You guys have done the initial research for me. What I need is a proposal to do a test with a genuinely independent panel watching. The panel is made up of people who are all registered engineers who have no pre-conceived position on the paranormal. I work with mechanical and electrical engineers every day and most of them never consider the non-physical world. None of the ones on the panel would be classifiable as "sceptics" in terms of the meaning in here - doubt, denial, derision. They are simply; observe and record, no analysis required. If you say you're going to turn that psi-wheel clockwise for 5 seconds and make it stop, as long as you do it, these people will gladly write it up as fact.

For the sc/keptics, have no fear - I have no intention of showing fuzzy pictures of "orbs", I am involving a reputable and internationally-accepted firm in terms of scientific investigation - Auckland Uniservices; a division of University of Auckland's Engineering department. I've had professional dealings with them and I spoke to them during my Fuelstar investigation*. When I present evidence of paranormal activity, it will be actual evidence, certified by unimpeachably dedicated scientists.

#Takes Bow#​

Yes, I do realise that the marriage of physics and paranormal - Dawkins foresaw this when he discussed "perinormality" with Randi at one of the Tim-Tams - will be worthy of a Nobel Prize. As merely the administrator, I won't be getting one myself, but as I'm the marketer and boss as well, everyone will know bloody well who got the ball rolling!

A small statue in the Bay of Islands will suffice. Or maybe at Cromer, next to one of my heroes, Henry Blogg. (Ok, a little bit behind 'Ry.)


*Even more important note: pseudoscience will still get rubbished in exactly the same way by me. Science works - it just doesn't yet have an understanding of the paranormal universe. Please; if you have a perpetual motion machine, make sure it works!
 
I have discovered the flaw in your cunning plan:

Shhhh!

Is this what they call "framing"? It's a nice try. I expect the woos to see right through it.

Are you sure?

I'm wondering whether, if it's approached right, it might attract a following a little different from the normal sceptical crowd. I'll be interested in seeing whether any of the ex-"woos" here might have had a look during their woodom.
 
Even if they did fall for it, there's still that nagging issue of "proof of the supernatural".

Ah yes, but I've got that covered!

They want to believe and I really, really want to help them, but the only way to get the required money is to beat the bookies - which requires passing a paranormal challenge. It's kind of "put up or shut up" in reverse.

Psychics may not want to win Randi's million, but how do they turn down the opportunity of getting their sticky hands on two mio to spread the word?
 
Dear Atheist,

The Centers for Research and Application of the Paranormal endorse your plan.

Respectfully,

Fnord of Dyscordia, Curator
 
I don’t understand how your 2m prize works TA. I gather the 2m prize is to be covered somehow by bookies who guarantee to payout the 2m if a psychic is successful. Obviously they don‘t underwrite this risk (however safe) for nothing and they would require upfront money to be paid before the psychic was tested. I don‘t know how much the “stake“ money would be but I assume it would be considerable to cover 2m. You are up for this cost every time a psychic is tested, regardless of their success or failure. I’m surprised that people aren’t taking the test, not to win the 2m, but merely to cost you money. Perhaps I have it all wrong, care to explain how it would work?
 
Dear Atheist,

The Centers for Research and Application of the Paranormal endorse your plan.

Respectfully,

Fnord of Dyscordia, Curator

Yay! 1 vote for having a go.

I don’t understand how your 2m prize works TA. I gather the 2m prize is to be covered somehow by bookies who guarantee to payout the 2m if a psychic is successful. Obviously they don‘t underwrite this risk (however safe) for nothing and they would require upfront money to be paid before the psychic was tested. I don‘t know how much the “stake“ money would be but I assume it would be considerable to cover 2m. You are up for this cost every time a psychic is tested, regardless of their success or failure. I’m surprised that people aren’t taking the test, not to win the 2m, but merely to cost you money. Perhaps I have it all wrong, care to explain how it would work?

You're right on it, although the odds of 10,000:1* every time means that it isn't too expensive. I'd gladly front up 100 quid every time. Pity nobody's made first base yet. (or ever will, come to that)

*You can get these odds also on Jesus returning to earth in the current year - they always have a few takers on that one - or Armageddon happening in the current year. Christ knows why people take that bet, sure loser either way, I'd have thought. Alien life being discovered was similar money, although it's down to 1000:1 as we reach out further in the universe. Betting on Brooklyn Beckham playing [soccer] for England will only get you 100:1, in comparison, but that's more due to the amount bet rather than the bookies thinking his genetics will make him a star.
 
Just a footnote...

We wanted to be called the "Centers for Research and Application of Paranormal and Occult-Like Abilities" but we ran out of room on the sign.

Cheers!

-Fnord-
 
Just a footnote...

We wanted to be called the "Centers for Research and Application of Paranormal and Occult-Like Abilities" but we ran out of room on the sign.

Cheers!

-Fnord-
You're fnunny Fnord :D
 
Have you confirmed you can get those odds? You get the 10,000:1 odds on Jesus returning presumably because there's 2000 years of it not happening, and because no-one really believes it will. That's not the case with psychic claims, surely. There haven't been 2000 years of failed tests, and bookies won't know enough about it (or won't get into the dialogue) to make a judgement call on how likely it is. I imagine they'll opt for safer odds, just in case. Plus, as has been shown pre-Randi, many people, including good scientists, have been fooled in 'controlled' conditions.

That aside, I'm not a gambling woman so you'll have to bear with my naivety on this one - you put up £100 and if the person doesn't pass, you lose it?
 
Have you confirmed you can get those odds?

Absolutely. There might be 2000 years without Jesus, but there are 10,000 years without psychics having ever worked. The real odds are probably in the vicinity of 10,000,000,000:1, but bookies like to retain an edge.

That aside, I'm not a gambling woman so you'll have to bear with my naivety on this one - you put up £100 and if the person doesn't pass, you lose it?

Correct.
 
What I will be seeking - and this is where Buzzlightyear, Edge, jcraig and others come in. You guys have done the initial research for me. What I need is a proposal to do a test with a genuinely independent panel watching. The panel is made up of people who are all registered engineers who have no pre-conceived position on the paranormal. I work with mechanical and electrical engineers every day and most of them never consider the non-physical world. None of the ones on the panel would be classifiable as "sceptics" in terms of the meaning in here - doubt, denial, derision. They are simply; observe and record, no analysis required. If you say you're going to turn that psi-wheel clockwise for 5 seconds and make it stop, as long as you do it, these people will gladly write it up as fact.

I was going to use a one liner about my psi-wheel being broken, but you must have spent ages on this post and you deserve more.

It is a good idea, apart from the fact that you probably would have to drag your bookies through the courts to get them to pay up.

Lord knows, if you sunk as much energy into a project as you do on this forum, it would not fail for lack of input.

But as we all know, you are doomed to the miserable existence of a small time hustler in the back streets of Auckland, ............pity!
 
The supernatural doesn't exist but wouldn't it be neat if it did? Walk into an old house and OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH I'm a ghost. You could talk with this creature and find out how to make it happy. It ain't gonna happen cause there ain't no ghosts.
 

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