• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

the SNP have saved the foxes!

skeptichaggis

Muse
S
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
692
As someone who grew up in the countryside I am well aware that for various reasons some species of animals need their numbers curbed. I,along with most, have no problem with this. Its simple reality.
British fox"hunting"(nothing of the sort of course)as carried out by well heeled,idiotically dressed hooray Henrys with a pack of baying hounds is cruel and pointless. Cruel because even if the animal is shot before the hound catch it it goes through unnecessary terror,pointless because the numbers killed by this method are to small to complete any cull.

The vast majority of culled Fox's are not killed during these "hunts"but are(always have been) killed by proffesional gamekeepers. If the hunts are not making any real inroads into cull numbers why allow them at all.

The way the law is currently the fox is chased by dogs but shot before they catch it.
Of course if the hounds"accidentally" get the the fox before it is shot it suffers exactly the same horrific death as the loser in a illegal dog fight does.

The SNP stance here may smack of cynicism(especially because anti fox hunting laws in Scotland are LESS strict than englands)but ultimately its the right move-for the wrong reasons sure,but still correct.
 
I know Ricky Gervais has been fairly emphatic about it, and it seems rather horrible from my point of view.

Props to everyone who worked to get this quashed.
 
Cleon said:
I know Ricky Gervais has been fairly emphatic about it, and it seems rather horrible from my point of view.

Props to everyone who worked to get this quashed.
Click to expand...

Yeah:thumbsup:,I'm a SNP member but even concede the cynicism and hypocrisy behind the SNP actions. Regardless of that it was still the right and decent thing to do.

For the SNP this may just have been something to beat the Tories with but I'm still happy for the foxes. Its Britain in 2015 and unnecessary terror and pain inflicted on any animal is just wrong. If a Ned(chav in england,white trash in america)set his pit bull on a fox,even if the fox escaped,he would find himself before the courts.

I'm not a vegetarian,and i think PETA are mostly imbeciles but I can't abide gratuitous,unnecessary suffering upon animals.
 
It annoys me when pro hunting people say that it's just class warfare, and we don't like it because it's what posh people do. This astounds me. The disgusting bloodsports that poorer people used to do were all (sort of) abolished decades ago, but now we get around to the last one (sort of), it's just because we don't like posh people.
 
Rat said:
It annoys me when pro hunting people say that it's just class warfare, and we don't like it because it's what posh people do. This astounds me. The disgusting bloodsports that poorer people used to do were all (sort of) abolished decades ago, but now we get around to the last one (sort of), it's just because we don't like posh people.
Click to expand...

Ugh. My first reaction would be to ask them why they shouldn't legalize dogfighting.
 
Cleon said:
Ugh. My first reaction would be to ask them why they shouldn't legalize dogfighting.
Click to expand...

Rural people's bloodlust never ceases to amaze me. The default solution to any issue appears to be wholesale slaughter whether it's badgers to combat bovine tuberculosis, ungulants to combat foot and mouth or the never ending extermination of vermin.
 
I did read an interesting letter from a farmer who said that he was a lifelong Conservative. He claimed that it's not difficult to keep chickens relatively safe from foxes, but foxes are very good for controlling rabbit numbers, which is useful if you're an arable farmer as well.
 
skeptichaggis said:
Yeah:thumbsup:,I'm a SNP member but even concede the cynicism and hypocrisy behind the SNP actions. Regardless of that it was still the right and decent thing to do.
Click to expand...
Given the proposals about EVEL made by Cameron, the SNP should now state that they intend to vote on English laws, until such time as the current proposals are withdrawn. It is not for the Speaker, or for the majority of MPs to relegate some of their number to second class status, by determining what bills they can vote on. It is for agreement between the different countries' representatives. If the government thinks otherwise, it needs to create a Parliament for England.

Until then, Scots MPs should vote on anything they like to create maximum difficulties for the current administration.

I would like the SNP to state clearly that that's what they're doing. Nothing wrong with it. Quite right.
 
Has anyone ever invented a more ludicrously labor-intensive and inefficient way to kill one small mammal? It's like using the fire department to change a light bulb.
 
It does, of course, highlight the whole "English votes for English laws" issue wonderfully. The SNP will not be able to argue against it on the basis that they don't intend to vote on purely English laws, for one.

No doubt the Tories will wait until that is put in place and then introduce the bill again.
 
Rat said:
I did read an interesting letter from a farmer who said that he was a lifelong Conservative. He claimed that it's not difficult to keep chickens relatively safe from foxes, but foxes are very good for controlling rabbit numbers, which is useful if you're an arable farmer as well.
Click to expand...

It's not about livestock, but about pheasants and partridges. This is the country landowners real sport, and foxes take rather more of these expensively reared birds than farmers and landowners feel happy with.

And no, skeptichaggis, the SNP hasn't saved anything. The government will merely re-introduce this bill once they have brought in the English-votes-for-English-legislation procedures, thus bypassing the SNP completely. Don't get too giddy too soon.
 
Rat said:
It annoys me when pro hunting people say that it's just class warfare, and we don't like it because it's what posh people do. This astounds me. The disgusting bloodsports that poorer people used to do were all (sort of) abolished decades ago, but now we get around to the last one (sort of), it's just because we don't like posh people.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right. I grew up in a pretty tough culture in which animals were kept for work mostly and not treated like pets.Once when I was about ten or so some folk from Cardiff(we were on a large traveller camp in wales at that time)came to buy some dogs. One of the potential buyers let slip it was "practice"dogs for there fighting dogs they wanted. They were chased out of the camp and there van was trashed. There were no posh people involved in that incident.

Its got nothing to do with disliking rich people. The fact is most people abhor unnecessary cruelty to animals. Its got nothing to do with class and everything to do with common human decency.
Of course we all know that David Cameron is sitting on his gold toilet and wiping his bum with pictures of single mothers with disabled kids but he's not like that because he's rich-he is like that because he is a prat. He would be a prat even if he was poor. I would pay good money to see him and Boris fight to the death. Seriously only a prat would even think fox hunting for sport is OK.

You know on consideration i think that Teresa may would win a manga style Tory party battle royale. Each Tory gets one weapon-butlers not allowed. The winner gets chased by the hounds. OK maybe that's the scot in me talking.

Alas mikeG,you are probably right. The Tories will shelve the pro blood sport plans till a more oppertunistic time.
 
Last edited:
skeptichaggis said:
You are absolutely right. I grew up in a pretty tough culture in which animals were kept for work mostly and not treated like pets.Once when I was about ten or so some folk from Cardiff(we were on a large traveller camp in wales at that time)came to buy some dogs. One of the potential buyers let slip it was "practice"dogs for there fighting dogs they wanted. They were chased out of the camp and there van was trashed. There were no posh people involved in that incident.

Its got nothing to do with disliking rich people. The fact is most people abhor unnecessary cruelty to animals. Its got nothing to do with class and everything to do with common human decency.
Of course we all know that David Cameron is sitting on his gold toilet and wiping his bum with pictures of single mothers with disabled kids but he's not like that because he's rich-he is like that because he is a prat. He would be a prat even if he was poor. I would pay good money to see him and Boris fight to the death. Seriously only a prat would even think fox hunting for sport is OK.
You know on consideration i think that Teresa may would win a manga style Tory party battle royale. Each Tory gets one weapon-butlers not allowed. The winner gets chased by the hounds. OK maybe that's the scot in me talking.

Alas mikeG,you are probably right. The Tories will shelve the pro blood sport plans till a more oppertunistic time.
Click to expand...

This stuff gets old, skeptichaggis. You could be accused of being a stuck record.......
 
Rat said:
I did read an interesting letter from a farmer who said that he was a lifelong Conservative. He claimed that it's not difficult to keep chickens relatively safe from foxes, but foxes are very good for controlling rabbit numbers, which is useful if you're an arable farmer as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, foxes are seen as the friends of market gardeners because foxes eat rabbits.

Meanwhile, what's the cost of secure fencing vs the cost of maintaining dozens of dogs and horses?

The ultimate hypocrisy is when we find that some hunts build artificial earths to encourage fox breeding, then claim they need to keep down "vermin".

Wankers.
 
skeptichaggis said:
Yeah:thumbsup:,I'm a SNP member but even concede the cynicism and hypocrisy behind the SNP actions. Regardless of that it was still the right and decent thing to do.

For the SNP this may just have been something to beat the Tories with but I'm still happy for the foxes. Its Britain in 2015 and unnecessary terror and pain inflicted on any animal is just wrong. If a Ned(chav in england,white trash in america)set his pit bull on a fox,even if the fox escaped,he would find himself before the courts.

I'm not a vegetarian,and i think PETA are mostly imbeciles but I can't abide gratuitous,unnecessary suffering upon animals.
Click to expand...

Well the SNP have only saved foxes in England and Wales. The new hunting proposals are still law in Scotland. The SNP have had 8 years to being the law in Scotland in line with the rest of the country but it clearly isn't important to them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom