Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 8

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When Ukraine attacked the Kerch bridge on July 17, two civilians died, and their child was injured.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).

Read the section of your Wikipedia link covering Legality of civilian casualties. The deaths of two civilians who happened to be using Russia's bridge to occupied Crimea at the moment when that legitimate military target was attacked by Ukraine are unfortunate but are absolutely not a war crime.

Incidentally, what do you think about the wisdom of taking a family summer holiday in occupied enemy territory during a war? Any opinion? Would you advise it?
 
Russia does actually have an official policy of never targeting civilians, but there seems some be some exceptions ...

In terms of civilian infrastructure such as medical facilities, Russia actually has two interrelated policies; one policy of bombing hospitals and another policy of denying bombing hospitals.
 
Not just paranoia, the risks are real.

When Ukraine attacked the Kerch bridge on July 17, two civilians died, and their child was injured.

I figure you only care about that for the same reason other Vatniks care about those deaths, because they're Russians who died.

Russia does actually have an official policy of never targeting civilians, but there seems some be some exceptions ...

Such as being Chechen, or continuing to be Chechen, or Georgian, or Syrian, or Ukrainian. But outside of those exceptions Russia definitely doesn't target civilians, unless you count Wagner as Russian in which case the list also includes Central Africans and Malians. But apart from all those people they definitely don't.
 
Read the section of your Wikipedia link covering Legality of civilian casualties. The deaths of two civilians who happened to be using Russia's bridge to occupied Crimea at the moment when that legitimate military target was attacked by Ukraine are unfortunate but are absolutely not a war crime.

Incidentally, what do you think about the wisdom of taking a family summer holiday in occupied enemy territory during a war? Any opinion? Would you advise it?
In my opinion, there are some legal arguments which seem to show that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, and there are some legal arguments which seem to show that Crimea belongs to Russia.

But the most fundamental argument, in my opinion, is the right to self-determination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination ), which is mentioned in the U.N. Charter.

This is why Ukraine's battle may be a lost cause since 2014, particularly in a political context where the West has committed many crimes (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and so on).

The many Russians who take their vacations in Crimea are perhaps not much interested in politics, and they may watch Russian TV every day, which may shape their political opinions. Perhaps they go to Crimea because they can no longer go to Western Europe or Ukraine, or because it's less expensive than Sochi.

Ukraine's policies seem to be governed by a toxic nationalism: the leaders of Ukraine, probably with substantial support of the population, want their country large and powerful, they show very interest in what the locals think.

This kind of mentality has probably been very common throughout human history, but it must be fought, in my opinion.
 
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Not this gibberish again.

Crimea. Isn't. Russian.

The. Referendum. Was. Not. Free.

The. Russians. Fixed. It.

Russia. Is. Not. A. Democracy.
 
Talking about Crimea, Russia destroying the Kakhovka dam means that Crimea is going to be short of water.
 
Not just paranoia, the risks are real.

When Ukraine attacked the Kerch bridge on July 17, two civilians died, and their child was injured.


(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).

RT is now reporting:

(https://www.rt.com/russia/581372-donetsk-shelling-civilians-killed/).

RT has also recently published a report about an intelligent analysis of this conflict (and its possible solution) made by former president of France Nicolas Sarkozy:

(https://www.rt.com/news/581378-sarkozy-crimea-get-real/).

I see you're back blaming Ukraine for Russian war crimes. You do realise this isn't Stormfront, right?
 
I see you're back blaming Ukraine for Russian war crimes. You do realise this isn't Stormfront, right?
There can be no question Russia has its share of responsibility in the current war.

But Ukraine's insistence on trying to defeat and humiliate Russia makes the situation worse for them.
 
There can be no question Russia has its share of responsibility in the current war.

But Ukraine's insistence on trying to defeat and humiliate Russia makes the situation worse for them.

Again, your nazi propoganda does not work here. Leave it where it belongs, over at Stormfront.

Oh and Ukraine is committing crimes for defending itself from an illegal and immoral Russian invasion? Do you even read the scripts the Russian troll farms give you to disseminate?
 
There can be no question Russia has its share of responsibility in the current war.

But Ukraine's insistence on trying to defeat and humiliate Russia makes the situation worse for them.

russia considers Ukraine's continued EXISTENCE a humiliation.
 
No, I don't think so (congratulations though for using the useful concept of "credibility rating").

I believe quoting RT from time to time helps make this thread more balanced.

Their information can frequently be verified by using other sources.

Well then, you should just use the other source - unless they are also Russian.
 
Russia Today is one of the least credible sources for anything. Doubly so when it comes to Russia itself. It's the propaganda arm of the Kremlin.
 
I am actually not a Russia fan,
Yes you are.

I am just a simple common sense fan.
No you are not.

There is no question that Russia, in the conflict which is discussed in this thread, enjoys some mitigating circumstances: it invaded only (mostly) Russian-speaking areas, and it set up referendums.
Russia invaded a sovereign nation. There are no mitigating circumstances, unless you count "their (the Russians') leader is a vicious evil dictator".

One has certainly seen crazier things in history, for example when France (in the 19th century) and Germany (in the 20th) invaded Russia.

You are saying the the invading country was in the wrong in both those cases? I agree. This time the invading country is Russia.
 
There can be no question Russia has its share of responsibility in the current war.
Yes, its share is all of it.

But Ukraine's insistence on trying to defeat and humiliate Russia makes the situation worse for them.

They are insisting that Ukraine continues to exist. It is necessary to eject Russia from Ukrainian territory for that to happen.

All the humiliation that is going on is of Russia's own making. If they weren't so utterly useless at everything, they would already have destroyed Ukraine.
 
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But the most fundamental argument, in my opinion, is the right to self-determination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination ), which is mentioned in the U.N. Charter.

And, as has been pointed out to you many times in the past, doesn't work the way you think it does. You ignore the actions of Russia, you ignore international jurisprudence on the matter, and then have the audacity to propose a "peace plan" that would violate Ukraine's right to self-determination.
 
And, as has been pointed out to you many times in the past, doesn't work the way you think it does. You ignore the actions of Russia, you ignore international jurisprudence on the matter, and then have the audacity to propose a "peace plan" that would violate Ukraine's right to self-determination.

Not defending' Michel's bizarre point here, as obviously Russia is entirely to blame for initiating a war of aggression, but it's probably worth pointing out that this war is almost certainly going to end in some kind of negotiated peace. Even with endless NATO armaments Ukraine does not have endless blood to spend on this campaign, and there's plenty of evidence that available manpower is already quite strained. Best case scenario is that Ukraine is able to achieve enough militarily that they enter such a peace negotiation with the upper hand so that they have to make few if any concessions.

Even with how disastrously Russia is fighting it's hard to imagine anything close to a total withdrawal or unconditional surrender being the ending of this.
 
Not defending' Michel's bizarre point here, as obviously Russia is entirely to blame for initiating a war of aggression, but it's probably worth pointing out that this war is almost certainly going to end in some kind of negotiated peace. Even with endless NATO armaments Ukraine does not have endless blood to spend on this campaign, and there's plenty of evidence that available manpower is already quite strained. Best case scenario is that Ukraine is able to achieve enough militarily that they enter such a peace negotiation with the upper hand so that they have to make few if any concessions.

Even with how disastrously Russia is fighting it's hard to imagine anything close to a total withdrawal or unconditional surrender being the ending of this.

Which counties should England give up, or which states should the USA give up?
May as well get it done now and save all the shooting.
 
Which counties should England give up, or which states should the USA give up?
May as well get it done now and save all the shooting.

Don't take my description of this situation as an endorsement.

How exactly do you see this war ending? Ukrainian tanks rolling on Moscow?
 
Don't take my description of this situation as an endorsement.

How exactly do you see this war ending? Ukrainian tanks rolling on Moscow?

The likeliest IMO is Putin bein defenestrated by the powerful people for whom he's costing a fortune. They might try and negotiate for Crimea. Who knows. But mainly they will want the war to be done and sanctions lifted.
 
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Advancing on Moscow isn't a Ukrainian war aim. That's more a Wagner thing. Ukraine's present war aims are roughly "Get your invading army out of our country, then we'll talk".
 
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