'The Red Pill' movie controversy

pharphis

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So, who has seen the movie? Has kept up with the controversy and cancelled and banned screenings?

Is the movie honest? Reasonable? Misleading propaganda?

This interview provoked me into starting a thread on the topic since I hadn't seen one yet and it has been a few months of controversy by now. Feel free to share whatever clips you want for discussion. What do these interviews accomplish? Do you think they are inadvertently "red pilling" the public by being so incompetent and obviously pushing an agenda or do you think most lay people eat it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLsslFEv7k

I personally haven't seen it, yet, but I hear it's on Amazon Prime now so I'll likely watch it soon.

I heard this talk by her the other day and it brought me to tears. It's hard to describe it but I was moved by how she recognized the cognitive issues she was having and overcame them. Something very few of us accomplish in our lives, I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgQAiy21dA
 
Anybody that offers critiques before watching the film is being disingenuous.

Cassie stated that the reason she investigated Paul's writings on voice.com was because she was offended. It appears that she is using a similar marketing technique to promote her video.

I really enjoyed Cassie owing the host(s) at 3 minutes on the first YouTube video :cool:
 
rjh01 said:
It has some good reviews here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3686998/reviews?ref_=tt_urv. Though it appears to have ignored by film critics as rotten tomatoes has no opinion on it.
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A rash of those IMDB reviews are from the period when it was being screened to very limited, usually issue-oriented, audiences. I'd take them with a grain of salt. You might also note that of the first page of reviews, 80% seem to be "Member for 7 months".... In short, they joined up just to review this film. Friends of Cassie Jaye? Or just issue-driven folks from the MRA Sub-Reddit?
 
youtube; didn't watch

I only know of "redpill" in its internet slang usage: "could you please fill me in, and by the way I'm a huge dickbag."

Can someone redpill me on this redpill movie?
 
"It's about looking at issues in an honest way..."

Haha. Oh god, are people really taking these nutters seriously?

Also, her "I was totally a feminist and made this movie to evaluate them and then I talked to these brilliant men and totally changed my mind," is not at all convincing.
 
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marplots said:
Apparently in the style of "atheist seeks to debunk Jesus, becomes a Christian instead." Trope worthy.
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The documentary maker says she is has not become a men's right advocate.

More like a, 'I didn't make this group I used to hate look bad enough, and the feminist community told me I wasn't a feminist anymore, so who am I to argue?' Even taking your line about it, it could be a 'Christian seeks to debunk atheism, becomes agnostic instead.'

Much of the feminist activist community has become a toxic bunch of tribals with a cargo-cult understanding of feminism, so on one hand I can see where she is coming from. On the other, no, she's still a feminist but doesn't call herself one. She still advocates for equality by advancing the needs of women which makes her a feminist, even if she also advocates for equality by advancing the needs of men. Of course that also means she is a MRA, just not of the toxic bunch of tribals with a cargo-cult understanding of equality that that group tends to be as well.

The reactions to the very idea of this film have been shameful, and shows just how shut-off to thinking people advocating gender issues in general have become. The first youtube link is only a few minutes and it really, really shows the conversation in microcosm. The hosts keep blatantly straw-manning and the film maker has to keep correcting them that yes, she has done exactly as they suggest she has not done.
 
TraneWreck said:
"It's about looking at issues in an honest way..."

Haha. Oh god, are people really taking these nutters seriously?

Also, her "I was totally a feminist and made this movie to evaluate them and then I talked to these brilliant men and totally changed my mind," is not at all convincing.
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Except she really did make feminist movies for a decade that were celebrated, and she traveled the world promoting them and feminism. The movie itself might be propaganda (I haven't seen it), but the ad-hom that she's never been a feminist is simply wrong. Her credentials check out.

It's also a straw man, as she doesn't call all these men brilliant and in fact is highly critical of many of them and their techniques.
 
tyr_13 said:
More like a, 'I didn't make this group I used to hate look bad enough, and the feminist community told me I wasn't a feminist anymore, so who am I to argue?' Even taking your line about it, it could be a 'Christian seeks to debunk atheism, becomes agnostic instead.'
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Stop it, you should be able to see a clear marketing ploy when it's tossed at you.

The reactions to the very idea of this film have been shameful, and shows just how shut-off to thinking people advocating gender issues in general have become. The first youtube link is only a few minutes and it really, really shows the conversation in microcosm. The hosts keep blatantly straw-manning and the film maker has to keep correcting them that yes, she has done exactly as they suggest she has not done.
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The reactions to this film are based on knowledge of the Men's Rights movement, the people involved, and the total bankruptcy of legitimate issue these misogynists have devoted their sad lives to. Your plea is no different than all of the hand-wringing over taking time to "understand" the needs of Trump voters.

Trump voters and MRA's are dismissed because we have knowledge of them and their beliefs, not because we don't know anything about them.

Find me a legitimate "Men's Rights" issue - sexual assault in prison, divorce/custody - and you'll find feminists devoting time and effort to reform long before these ******** showed up to use legitimate concerns solely for the purpose of adding a respectable guise to their misogyny.
 
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tyr_13 said:
Except she really did make feminist movies for a decade that were celebrated, and she traveled the world promoting them and feminism. The movie itself might be propaganda (I haven't seen it), but the ad-hom that she's never been a feminist is simply wrong. Her credentials check out.

It's also a straw man, as she doesn't call all these men brilliant and in fact is highly critical of many of them and their techniques.
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She's marketing her movie. She needs a hook. She's trying to use her perceived credibility as a feminist to sneak this past the critics. If nothing else, the sad defense of Elam - Oh, he's just "controversial" to get people to listen - should clue you in on the plan here.

And, by the way, I'm totally against banning it, but I'm also pretty certain what we'll find: a bunch of treacly MRA's putting on their Sunday clothes and talking about the few legitimate issues they ever raise and downplaying the stuff they're actually passionate about.

The entire movement is a bait and switch: isn't sexual assault in prison bad? Yeah? See, that's proof that feminists are ruining the world...
 
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TraneWreck said:
Stop it, you should be able to see a clear marketing ploy when it's tossed at you.
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This is a handwave.


The reactions to this film are based on knowledge of the Men's Rights movement, the people involved, and the total bankruptcy of legitimate issue these misogynists have devoted their sad lives to. Your plea is no different than all of the hand-wringing over taking time to "understand" the needs of Trump voters.

Trump voters and MRA's are dismissed because we have knowledge of them and their beliefs, not because we don't know anything about them.

Find me a legitimate "Men's Rights" issue - sexual assault in prison, divorce/custody - and you'll find feminists devoting time and effort to reform long before these ******** showed up to use legitimate concerns solely for the purpose of adding a respectable guise to their misogyny.
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You cannot believe that both that the issues are totally illegitimate and that they are legitimate.

You're doing exactly what I was being critical of. You're lumping all the criticisms of Men's Rights issues in together to call them all valid, when many are not. You're ad-homing all their concerns and calling them invalid, when many are not. One does not need to agree with or like the MRAs overall to agree that they do indeed have some valid points, and some of the criticisms of them are invalid. Making it this black and white all encompassing when it is not. Take the arguments on their own merits or lack thereof.

Assuming this film maker is operating in bad faith simply because the film reportedly doesn't outright condemn all MRAs and their issues is poor critical thinking, and does not justify the reaction.

You're even making up arguments I haven't made, straw-manning already. Who said you don't know anything about MRAs?

Yes, many feminists thankfully do work on those issues you named, but many also belittle, dismiss, and outright attack the validity of those issues. Do you know that on pages devoted to discussing male rape survivors, we get feminists coming in accusing us of 'what about the men' arguments to marginalize the rape of women? On discussions of male rape, not on discussions of female rape or rape in general, male rape. That behavior not only fails to be called to task from the feminist community in general, it's rationalized and if a male feminist calls it out, he's pilloried and accused of mansplaining, suddenly a dirty MRA. That's probably one reason when it happens, the male survivors of rape walk on eggshells not to appear even a little harsh of the person trying to silence their discussion.

To me it no longer matters how bad this documentary might be, it might be straight up propaganda, but the reaction to it is more important. It shows how intellectually bankrupt pop feminism has become. Attack the arguments, don't just ad-hom out of it. This pisses me off because feminism is actually really important, and to see them behave as Trump supporters, to use your own well poisoning, is heartbreaking.
 
TraneWreck said:
She's marketing her movie. She needs a hook. She's trying to use her perceived credibility as a feminist to sneak this past the critics. If nothing else, the sad defense of Elam - Oh, he's just "controversial" to get people to listen - should clue you in on the plan here.

And, by the way, I'm totally against banning it, but I'm also pretty certain what we'll find: a bunch of treacly MRA's putting on their Sunday clothes and talking about the few legitimate issues they ever raise and downplaying the stuff they're actually passionate about.

The entire movement is a bait and switch: isn't sexual assault in prison bad? Yeah? See, that's proof that feminists are ruining the world...
Click to expand...


Oh for the love of..this is such stupid straw man. Show me where she makes this argument. Please.
 
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