The Possibility of Immortality

jay gw

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On this glorious spring day in Cambridge, England, the heraldic flags are flying from the stone towers, and I feel like I could be in the 17th century—or, as I pop into the Eagle Pub to meet University of Cambridge longevity theorist Aubrey de Grey, the 1950s.

It was in this pub, after all, that James Watson and Francis Crick met regularly for lunch while they were divining the structure of DNA and where, in February 1953, Crick made his breathless announcement that they had succeeded.

Aubrey de Grey has no victory pronouncements to make as of yet, but he is vigorously pursuing an even more challenging project. Using the legacy that Watson and Crick bequeathed us, he proposes to tinker with the essential biochemical pathways that drive the aging process.

De Grey contends that we know enough to intelligently map out a program of anti-aging intervention research such that sometime in the next 100 years, and quite possibly much sooner, the average human life span may be 5,000 years, a figure brought short of outright immortality by the small number of people who will die from non-age-related diseases and everybody else who, given the boggling amount of time available to them on the planet, will eventually do something unlucky or stupid like walk in front of a moving rocket car. '

In de Grey time, the 400-year span between Shakespeare’s England and today would be but the blink of an eye.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/article/0,20967,929447-1,00.html

I see some problems with the idea of a person living to be 5000 years old. First, sheer boredom would drive me insane after about 70 years. I'm already bored most of the time. What a curse to live that long.

Second, if even 20 percent of humanity lived to be hundreds of years old, the world would soon be so crowded they would be pushed off a cliff just to make room.
 
Larry Niven explored extreme longevity in his "Known Space" books. He thought up a rejuvenating compound derived from genetically-altered Ragweed...

Some features: Birthright lotteries. Strict limits on reproduction, doled out to the genetically-qualified by a lottery system.
Boredom is indeed a problem, Niven's character, Louis Wu, takes periodic breaks to go out spacing till he can stand to see another human face.
 
Longevity is an old SF device as popular as FTL travel and wormholes.
The Truth ,as always, is a bit stranger.
There has been a recent awareness of telomeres and tumorigenesis in oncology . Recently there have been studies Shay (02) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=telomeres+aging&spell=1 , Xin Z, Broccoli D. (04) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...e&db=PubMed&list_uids=15237236&dopt=Abstract, That show a definitive relationship in cell/organism life and the shortening of telomeres caps on DNA strands.

The biological sciences are not my strong suit but the papers are an interesting read.I'm sure there are experts on the board who can explain this subject in greater detail.

Hand me that booster spice will You Louis Wu?
 
Highly unlikely. But I find it shocking when you say:

jay gw said:
I see some problems with the idea of a person living to be 5000 years old. First, sheer boredom would drive me insane after about 70 years. I'm already bored most of the time. What a curse to live that long.

WHAT!!?? :p I would never be bored, there are so many things to do/learn in this world! Imagine the things you would be able to see! the things you would be able to do!

Huh, anyway...

What really worries me is that, if it every happens, only some very rich or politicians will be able to get the technology... thats discusting.

Only people who has dedicated themselfs to improving humanity should deserve to live longer. Of course, we dont live in that world.
 
Re: Re: The Possibility of Immortality

Bodhi Dharma Zen said:

What really worries me is that, if it every happens, only some very rich or politicians will be able to get the

...which is why I am working on being rich as we speak.
 
The only way that I see immortallity working is through transfering the mind to new body every 50 years or so.

But with a law that your new body must be different to the previous ones (gender, race, species).
 
It may cause problems with social security if you work for 50 years and then claim your pension for 4935
 
Adequate genetic-level cancer treatment will have to come first. After that, with therapeutic stem-cell treatments and organ replacements, I'm sure life spans will be adequately extended.

However, as some have already suggested, the revolution will not be as much medical in the end, but social. That's one magic trick I'd like to see pulled.

Athon
 
My question -- OK, it's not really my question, because I read about the following problem in 2 different sf books. One by Heinlein (Methusalah's Children), and the same problem in a series by L. E. Modessit (the title of which I cannot remember).

Anyway...
How do you retain the ability to process all the information you will accumulate? In both the above books, the immortal characters run into the problem that their memories become confusing and unreliable. In Modessit's book, the hero eventually goes insane because everything he does and everything he sees sets off a memory cascade. He is unable to differentiate reality from memory.
So, how would that be handled? I suspect that you would just gradually forget the older memories and retain the ones that you use the most, just like now. So you would essentially remember only the most recent 200 to 300 years? Or only remember a very narrow spectrum of specialized activity without the social or personal context that went with it? What would be the use of that?

Of course, we don't know how much info the brain can store. But heck, I have trouble remembering stuff now!
 
John Bentley said:

Anyway...
How do you retain the ability to process all the information you will accumulate? [...] I suspect that you would just gradually forget the older memories and retain the ones that you use the most, just like now. So you would essentially remember only the most recent 200 to 300 years? Or only remember a very narrow spectrum of specialized activity without the social or personal context that went with it? What would be the use of that?

Of course, we don't know how much info the brain can store. But heck, I have trouble remembering stuff now!

Why is this any different than the situation we're currently in, and why should immortality make that much of a difference. Assuming that you're like every other human, you've already "lost" a tremendous amount of your past (what gifts did you receive for your sixth birthday? What color(s) were they wrapped in?) Human memory is notorious for being fallable, pliable, and subject to revision or outright reclamation.
 
new drkitten said:
Why is this any different than the situation we're currently in, and why should immortality make that much of a difference. Assuming that you're like every other human, you've already "lost" a tremendous amount of your past (what gifts did you receive for your sixth birthday? What color(s) were they wrapped in?) Human memory is notorious for being fallable, pliable, and subject to revision or outright reclamation.

I agree. That is actually my point. The difference is that although I don't remember the details of my life, I do remember when I was 6 years old, what my parents looked like, etc. etc. Would all this be lost as I got older, and ceased to consider it for centuries at a time? That seems rather sad to me.

Or would partial memories surface at inopportune times when something reminded me of something or someone I last saw 300 years ago? Would I always go around with that maddening "I know I've seen that somewhere before, I just can't remember where" feeling?

At least that would be a solution to the boredom problem. You would just forget that you had done something before, given enough time.

And then the other problem that was discussed in Paul Hogan's "Giants" series. Would all of our social and scientific progress be halted when immortals eventually fill all the leadership positions? Would resistance to new ways of thinking about current problems become absolute? We have enough problems with that now, and our leaders in scientific fields are seldom in their positions longer than 20 to 25 years.
 
Yes. the problem is memory. If I forget who I was a millennium back, am I still me? Besides, 5000 years is no damn good to anyone. Continents move about 1-200 metres in that time. It's barely enough to establish a decent ice age.

Tell me when you can do five million and I might be interested.

Meanwhile, my arthritis is a permanent plague and I really don't fancy another thousand years in this job.

I recommend John Wyndham's classic on this subject "Trouble with Lichen".
 

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