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The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

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SweatyYeti

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This thread is for analysis of any evidence which relates to whether or not Bob Heironimus could have been Patty.

That includes:
1) Comparing Patty's apparent body proportions to Bob's....and, by extension, to humans, in general.

....and also...

2) All other types of evidence which relate to Bob H. possibly being the subject of the film.


Analysis of other aspects of Patty's hide...or "suit"....such as 'apparent muscle movements', can be done in a separate thread.
 
Here again is one of my favorite comparisons...


Patty1lined1.jpg
Bob1lined1.jpg




Lining-up the eyes, (which had to line-up if Bob was inside the "suit")....and the feet.....Bob's arms come up well short of Patty's.
 
Might that be because the arms on the suit are a bit longer? Just a thought.
 
Show the "finger flex" clip again, to examine whether or not a hand is actually filling the glove, fully. Or, at all. The fingers look empty.
 
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Here again is one of my favorite comparisons...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty%20and%20Bob/Patty1lined1.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty%20and%20Bob/Bob1lined1.jpg[/qimg]



Lining-up the eyes, (which had to line-up if Bob was inside the "suit")....and the feet.....Bob's arms come up well short of Patty's.

Unless the photos are from the same distance and angle and were created with the same lenses any such "eyeline" comparison is meaningless.

To even start to make such a comparison you would need to know the details of the equipment used to make both photos, the settings used at the time, distance from the camera and so on.
 
Unless the photos are from the same distance and angle and were created with the same lenses any such "eyeline" comparison is meaningless.


Can you demonstrate what you're saying.....by showing 2 different photos of the same person, which show the person to have apparently different body proportions......along with a detailed explanation of which differences (such as: distance from camera, angle of shot, different type lenses, etc.) produce which differences in body proportions?

Unless you can demonstrate what you're saying is true, it doesn't carry any weight.


To even start to make such a comparison you would need to know the details of the equipment used to make both photos, the settings used at the time, distance from the camera and so on.


Not really. I've made several comparisons, and I'll continue to make them, without knowing the details of the equipment used.

In all the comparisons so far, Patty's arms appear to be longer than other human's arms, proportionally speaking.


You need to substantiate your claims, with something of substance.
 
Can you demonstrate what you're saying.....by showing 2 different photos of the same person, which show the person to have apparently different body proportions......along with a detailed explanation of which differences (such as: distance from camera, angle of shot, different type lenses, etc.) produce which differences in body proportions?

Unless you can demonstrate what you're saying is true, it doesn't carry any weight.

...snip...

It was pretty much quantified and then described by Isaac Newton a few hundred years ago, the science today is known as "Optics" and specifically "propagation of light" - a good starting point is this website: http://www.physics.upenn.edu/courses/gladney/phys151/lectures/lecture_apr_09_2003.shtml.

ETA: And just to help here is an example of the distortion that changing just the focal length can introduce to objects: http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15566
 
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Show the "finger flex" clip again, to examine whether or not a hand is actually filling the glove, fully. Or, at all. The fingers look empty.


Here you go...

handmove1ag.gif



The fingers don't look empty...the joint at the end of the finger can be seen bending.


Contrary to popular opinion, Dfoot's "magical Gorilla glove" does not replicate the finger-movement we see with Patty, the joint at the end of the forefinger doesn't bend at all....

DfootHand1.gif




Dfoot deserves an "A" for effort....but he has yet to replicate any of the movements that we see on Patty.
 
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Darat wrote:
And just to help here is an example of the distortion that changing just the focal length can introduce to objects: http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15566


Thanks for the example, Darat...but that particular example doesn't have any relevance to the comparison images of Bob and Patty, posted above.


The distortion in those images you linked to is a distortion of the relative sizes of 2 objects which are several feet apart.

The arms of Bob and Patty are NOT several feet away from their own bodies.

Can you provide any relevant examples of distortion, caused by camera optics??
 
Is this an example of the same kind of distortion? The head is apparently larger than it should be for the body.

Photo taken with a 50mm lens on 135 film.

 
For a start you have obviously missed that the photographs I linked to shows how the apparent geometry of a 3D object can be distorted by simply changing the focal length used to capture the image. Secondly I pointed you to a site that starts to explain why objects that are photographed will be distorted, you can actually follow the equations to learn further about these natural laws. As they say this is not rocket science.
 
Contrary to popular opinion, Dfoot's "magical Gorilla glove" does not replicate the finger-movement we see with Patty, the joint at the end of the forefinger doesn't bend at all....

But we don't even see the joint at the end of Patty's forefinger. Or much detail at all. Dfoot's example shows much more detail and range of movement than we see in the PGF.

"Magical Gorilla Glove" would be a pretty good name for a band. Just sayin'
 
Is this an example of the same kind of distortion? The head is apparently larger than it should be for the body.

Photo taken with a 50mm lens on 135 film.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_840748dcfc5a6da82.jpg[/qimg]

(My reply above was to SweatyYeti by the way.)

That is a good example of how proportions or as I called it the geometry of a 3D object can be distorted in a photograph and since SweatyYeti has not taken this into account his comparison is meaningless.
 
On a different note, if the PGF depicts a man in a suit, what do you think of the FIT of the suit?

It doesn't look like an ill-fitting suit. There are no obvious loose bits, and it's not bursting at the seams. Yet Bob Heironimus doesn't indicate that the suit was custom tailored to fit him. He pretty much just put it on over his street clothes and went for a walk.

There's something not quite right about that. How would it fit so well?
 
Here you go...

[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/handmove1ag.gif[/qimg]


The fingers don't look empty...the joint at the end of the finger can be seen bending.

That's the whole problem Sweaty... The joint at the end of the finger...

...But NOT the joint between it, and the knuckle...

Try it yourself. Can you do that? Can anybody, NOT using a rubber glove with empty fingers?


Contrary to popular opinion, Dfoot's "magical Gorilla glove" does not replicate the finger-movement we see with Patty, the joint at the end of the forefinger doesn't bend at all....

[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/DfootHand1.gif[/qimg]



Dfoot deserves an "A" for effort....but he has yet to replicate any of the movements that we see on Patty.

Well of course he can't make the last joint bend. His glove is empty, and he isn't pressing it against his thigh. He does get an "A" actually. What "movements"? Rubber feet? The absurd creases and tucks? Or the weird padding lumps?
 
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As it relates to Bob Heironimus as Patty I am reposting my 28 "I know" post (now 29) with a couple edits thanks to William Parcher:
I believe Bob Heironimus was Patty. I don't believe Philip Morris had anything to do with the suit. I don't expect Bob Heironimus to have ever had intimate knowledge of all the circumstances involved before he got into the suit nor do I expect him to have a perfect recollection of the details he did know near 40 years later. I don't expect a person who is engineering a hoax for profit and gain to stop and explain every part of his plan to each person he involves in that plan.

I know Bob Heironimus had connections to Patterson and Gimlin unlike the notion that footers wanted us to believe that he was just some random crazy guy looking for attention decades later. I know Gimlin and Heironimus were and still are good friends. I know Heironimus lives on the same street as Gimlin. I know it makes zero sense to implicate yourself and your friend and neighbour in a hoax when that friend and neighbour could take you to court or at the least walk over to your house and pop you in the nose and take back the lawn mower he lent you for calling him a liar. I know Gimlin won't take Heironimus to court and I know he has declined invitations to do public interviews with Heironimus.

I know Heironimus appears in footage for Patterson's film 'Bigfoot - America's Abominable Snowman' in May 1967 in what appears to be Yakima riding on Chico, leading another horse, and being followed by Jerry Merrit. I know that Gimlin was riding Heironimus' horse at Bluff Creek and didn't say anything until it was discovered and put to him long after he had a chance to say that Heironimus did have some connection to Bluff Creek. I know that Patterson appears on Heironimus' horse beside a wig wearing Bob Gimlin on the cover of Argosy magazine.

I know that Patterson was a talented performer and had connections in Hollywood. I know that Patterson had representation by Hollywood entertainment lawyer Walter Hurst that was paid for by George Radford. I know on May 26th, 1967 Roger Patterson signed a contract with George and Vilma Radford to receive $700.00 for expenses related to his film.

Here is that contract:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=13604

I know that during this time Patterson had made trips to Los Angeles and had stayed with musician Gene Vincent and old friend actor Ross Hagen who did vocals for Patterson's Bigfoot calls for his film. I know that Patterson would have us believe that during all these activites of his he was actually insanely lucky enough to film a real Bigfoot while looking for one, a feat not achieved since after 40 years of concerted effort and searching with ever greater and more advanced technologies and man power. I know that Patterson would have us believe that he filmed a female Bigfoot with prominent hairy breasts yet amazingly he had drawn a detailed illustration of just such a creature in a his Bigfoot book published just the year before. I know this picture was inspired by the alleged William Roe encounter of just such a creature, the account of which is accompanied by an illustration by Roe's daughter. I know that the PGF plays very much like a visualization of the William Roe encounter.

I know that we are at a point where denying Heironimus' involvement is so unrealistic that even Bigfoot enthusiasts and PGF students who have spent years defending the film are now putting forth theories that have Patterson putting Heironimus in a suit though not being the subject of the PGF.

Here is pseudo-intellectual Roger Knight advancing just such a scenario:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.p...dpost&p=481813

I know that there are serious discrepancies regarding the timeline of the film being sent for development. I know that Roger explained that when he first encountered the creature his horse reared and fell, pinning him. I know he produced a bent stirrup as proof of this. I know that later we were told that he slipped off the back of his horse extracating his camera one-handed and unharmed. I know that Patterson had a penchant for illusion and deception as evidenced by his insisting Gimlin wear a hokey native wig and introducing him as an Indian tracker. I know that there is no original film for people to examine is available and that copies that are show evidence of tampering in the form of splicing.

I know that people like yourself, Lu, have created a system where a lack of reliable evidence and faulty details are excused if it allows you to perpetuate your belief system. I know that you are a propononent of the reality of the Minnesota Iceman yet now don't have much to say when that classic gaff was just recently revealed to be a hoax by Verne Langdon who was central in the events that lead to it's creation. What would you like on your crow?

I know that it is just a matter of time now and much sooner than many people think before the facts of the Patterson/Gimlin hoax are revealed. I know that people who continue to defend the film's veracity such as yourself and Sweaty do so with an almost unsettling will and investment to believe. I know that in years to come that the PG hoax will be used to educate people in the perpetuation of belief systems.

I know that 2008 is a very embarrassing year to be a Bigfoot enthusiast.
 
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