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The Most Destructive Idea Ever

SezMe

post-pre-born
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From here:

It is Kennedy's opinion that Christians who embrace evolution are compromising their faith. He describes evolution as the most destructive idea ever to enter the mind of man, and a concept that has killed more people than all religions that ever existed.

"Communistic evolution, according to the Senate committee that examined it, is responsible for 135 million deaths in peacetime," he said. "There's no religion that has a tiny fraction of that many deaths on it conscience." And it is amazing, he added, that evolution -- despite its widespread acceptance -- has no scientific basis. "There are scientists who will admit that there's not one iota of scientific evidence to support it."
I wonder if Kennedy has any hard data on causes of death since recorded history. But that the concept of evolution has killed untold numbers of people is one of the most outlandish statements I've ever read.

Also note that evolution is described as "communistic" Is there a capatalistic evolution? Or maybe Shanek can give us the Libertarian version of evolution.

These people are really nuts. There is just no other way to put it.
 
Would he like to define "Communistic evolution"?

Then perhaps we could distinguish it from, say, the evolution of species.

I guess he wouldn't.
135 million deaths... there's no religion that has a tiny fraction of that many deaths on it conscience.
Figures, anyone?
There are scientists who will admit that there's not one iota of scientific evidence to support it.
NAME THEM!
 
What "Second law of Thermodynamics" says about evolution?

Whether it is meant for "evolution" or "modern evolution"?

Whether evolution is bondage as against salvation?

Whether certain level of evolution is needed to free from bondage or to attain salvation?


We may need to know awnser of above questions to understand this topic.:)
 
Kumar said:
What "Second law of Thermodynamics" says about evolution?
That the entropy of the Sun must be increasing. It is.

Whether it is meant for "evolution" or "modern evolution"?
What's the difference between regular evolution and modern evolution?

Whether evolution is bondage as against salvation?
Does not compute. Please remove meaningless words and try again.

Whether certain level of evolution is needed to free from bondage or to attain salvation?
Does not compute. Please remove meaningless words and try again.
We may need to know awnser of above questions to understand this topic.:)
I'm starting to think a miracle is necesary for you to undertand any topic. The rest of us can understand it just fine.
 
Donks said:
That the entropy of the Sun must be increasing. It is.

Does it or big-bang theory is telling that we are now progressing towards destruction?

What's the difference between regular evolution and modern evolution?

Natural changes & changes in evolution due to man-made unnatural introductions & interferances.

Whether evolution is bondage as against salvation?
Whether certain level of evolution is needed to free from bondage or to attain salvation?


Does not compute. Please remove meaningless words and try again.


These are not meaningless but can be non-technical in today's science dictonary. Let me indicate in your language;

Bondage: atomic/molecular/energetic bondings & associations:
Salvation: just opoosite i.e. atomic/molecular/energetic seprations & disassociations.

I'm starting to think a miracle is necesary for you to undertand any topic. The rest of us can understand it just fine.

We may be trying for miracle only.;)
 
Kumar said:
Does it or big-bang theory is telling that we are now progressing towards destruction?
Does it what? Increase? Yes.
Natural changes & changes in evolution due to man-made unnatural introductions & interferances.
Humans are part of nature. Our effects are natural. If you want to define "unnatural" as the effects of man, then it still makes no difference in regards to evolution.
These are not meaningless but can be non-technical in today's science dictonary. Let me indicate in your language;

Bondage: atomic/molecular/energetic bondings & associations:
Salvation: just opoosite i.e. atomic/molecular/energetic seprations & disassociations.
Is a nuclear explosion "salvation"? And, I really don't see how this has anything to do with evolution.
 
reationists believe that the second law of thermodynamics does not permit order to arise from disorder, and therefore the macro evolution of complex living things from single-celled ancestors could not have occurred. The creationist argument is based on their interpretation of the relationship between probability and a thermodynamic property called "entropy."

(p. 14) All processes manifest a tendency toward decay and disintegration, with a net increase in what is called the entropy, or state of randomness or disorder, of the system. This is called the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

(p. 19) There is a universal tendency for all systems to go from order to disorder, as stated in the Second Law, and this tendency can only be arrested and reversed under very special circumstances. ...
(p.25) The Second Law (Law of Energy Decay) states that every system left to its own devices always tends to move from order to disorder, its energy tending to be transformed into lower levels of availability, finally reaching the state of complete randomness and unavailability for further work.

Of course, the creationist application of the second law of thermodynamics to the development of living things is inconsistent with any model of origins. Creationists get around this problem by invoking the supernatural:

The Genesis Flood, by Whitcomb and Morris:

(p. 223) But during the period of Creation, God was introducing order and organization into the universe in a very high degree, even to life itself! It is thus quite plain that the processes used by God in creation were utterly different from the processes which now operate in the universe!

Some snips; http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html

Entropy and Life
To argue that evolution is inconsistent with the second law of thermodynamics it is usually stated that evolution is a continual process of achieving higher order and design, which is against the second law. This is an argument based on casual definition of terms, rather than on quantification of order, design, and entropy. I hope that by this point it is reasonably clear that this argument actually has little if anything to do with the second law of thermodynamics. How would one propose to measure the relative order or design increase that would accompany any evolutionary step? What number represents the difference between standing erect and walking on all fours, between having only day vision and between having also developed night vision...? If we cannot answer such questions, then arguments about order and design will fall outside the realm of science.

http://www.charleswood.ca/reading/evolution.php

We may have to think that; are we evoluting or destroying now?
 
The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies to closed systems. Any given organism is an open[/]system. A local decrease in entropy if perfectly possible without any interbention by man, god or anything in between, so long as there is at least as large an increase in entropy elsewhere within that system.
 
Getting back to the Opening Post...

"Communistic evolution, according to the Senate committee that examined it, is responsible for 135 million deaths in peacetime," he said. "There's no religion that has a tiny fraction of that many deaths on it conscience."

Of course, he's mixing up communism (a political and social system) with evolution (a scientific theory), when the two ideas have very different origins and relate to two very different things. I'm guessing that he's trying to play off the common impression that communism and evolution are both "atheistic", so the two are basically the same. Which of course is rubbish for two reasons- first because evolution as a scientific theory says nothing about the existence of God (and in fact many evolutionary biologists have religious beliefs). Secondly because, even if the two had this in common it still wouldn't mean that they were the same thing or the same idea. And in fact, as a_u_p noted, the Soviet communists were actually hostile to Darwinism for ideological reasons, preferring Lyshenko's dubious theories.

There's also an Appeal to Consequences, and perhaps a naturalistic fallacy thrown in there as well.

And it is amazing, he added, that evolution -- despite its widespread acceptance -- has no scientific basis. "There are scientists who will admit that there's not one iota of scientific evidence to support it."

The "no scientific basis" comment is of course untrue. And the "there are scientists who will admit..." is an Appeal to Anonymous Authorities.

It was actually quite an impressive feat to fit so many logical fallacies into 3 sentences.
 
Donks said:
Does it what? Increase? Yes.

I meant; Does increase in entropy of the Sun is leading us towards destruction & whether big-bang theory also tells similarily?

Humans are part of nature. Our effects are natural. If you want to define "unnatural" as the effects of man, then it still makes no difference in regards to evolution.

"nature" means inherant sense of right & wrong. Does our developments/modernizations mataches/balances with a continual average developments/changes which unables us to take our own time to adapt those changes without toxic/adverse/side effects?

Is a nuclear explosion "salvation"? And, I really don't see how this has anything to do with evolution.

It is under thought whether we are evoluting on bondages or not, now? Evolution may mean "creation phase" of big-bang, Sun's entrophy.:)
 
Kumar said:
I meant; Does increase in entropy of the Sun is leading us towards destruction & whether big-bang theory also tells similarily?
The Sun will eventually run out of Hydrogen to burn, then it will burn Helium for a while, then heavier elements, then it will die.
"nature" means inherant sense of right & wrong.
That was one of the definitions for "natural", not for "nature." Plus, you're the only one who choses that definition, it is antiquated and useless in the contexts where you want to apply it.
Does our developments/modernizations mataches/balances with a continual average developments/changes which unables us to take our own time to adapt those changes without toxic/adverse/side effects?
Our developments reduce the adverse effects of the world around us. You may have a romantic, ignorant and unrealistic view of a world without technology, but I am perfectly happy with modern healthcare and conviniences.
It is under thought whether we are evoluting on bondages or not, now? Evolution may mean "creation phase" of big-bang, Sun's entrophy.:)
Who says we are in bondage? And please don't try to pull a new definition of evolution directly out of your ass. Try to work with the one the rest of the world uses.
 
Wudang said:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies to closed systems. Any given organism is an open[/]system. A local decrease in entropy if perfectly possible without any interbention by man, god or anything in between, so long as there is at least as large an increase in entropy elsewhere within that system.


Btw, are we not under control of 'force' or prime energy & prime matter? Are we not progressing according to some system?
 
Kumar said:
Btw, are we not under control of 'force' or prime energy & prime matter? Are we not progressing according to some system?

What does that have to do with the application of the 2nd law to closed systems? We are progressing according to the laws of thermodynamics and others.
 
Communism was responsible for something on the order of 100 million deaths during the 20th century; that much is true. Largely that was due to starvation, which was used as a political tool (the peasants can't rebel if they're dead) and also came as a result of disastrous (and rigidly enforced) agricultural policy.

And as AUP noted, the Soviets rejected Darwinian evolution and embraced Lamarckism via Michurin and Lysenko. There's a little article about it on Skepdic. This certainly contributed to the death toll, though it's hard to accurately estimate how many people were killed by the various factors.
 
Of course, the other common expression of this meme is that "atheists" killed 100 million people. The major communist regimes were all officially atheistic, therefore it is atheism at fault.

Carefully sidestepping the obvious common factor: That all communist regimes are communist...
 

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