The Last Straw - When Christianity Failed You

[Drewbot]

I have an experience that in my mind caused Christianity to epic-ly fail as a belief system. I was always questioning the things they'd say, but this is the one thing that really stands out.

If you have any such experiences, please share them.

I was 11 or 12 years old, in a christian youth meeting, we were talking about the "Whoever believes in me shall never die" verse, and how it meant if we believed, we would live forever in heaven.

I innocently asked "what if you decide you are going to believe, for no other reason than to guarantee you'd go to heaven?" I was thinking this would be an easy way to guarantee that I'd go to heaven, I'd just believe, even though I thought it was all silly.

The leader said that didn't work, that Jesus would know that you are not being faithful for the right reasons.

Did anyone know that that? Jesus is going to break down the believers into- Those who really bought into it, and those who were only doing it so they'd go to heaven.

Anyway, I didn't go to church much after that, except to make my mom happy.

 

[Cainkane1]

I have an experience that in my mind caused Christianity to epic-ly fail as a belief system. I was always questioning the things they'd say, but this is the one thing that really stands out.

If you have any such experiences, please share them.

I was 11 or 12 years old, in a christian youth meeting, we were talking about the "Whoever believes in me shall never die" verse, and how it meant if we believed, we would live forever in heaven.

I innocently asked "what if you decide you are going to believe, for no other reason than to guarantee you'd go to heaven?" I was thinking this would be an easy way to guarantee that I'd go to heaven, I'd just believe, even though I thought it was all silly.

The leader said that didn't work, that Jesus would know that you are not being faithful for the right reasons.

Did anyone know that that? Jesus is going to break down the believers into- Those who really bought into it, and those who were only doing it so they'd go to heaven.

Anyway, I didn't go to church much after that, except to make my mom happy.

Xcians are fond of saying "it doesn't work that way" in a knowing manner. The trouble is it doesn't work at all. I lost faith in Xcianity when Gawd failed to cure my measels.

 

[fossilhound]

I lost all faith when I realized at a very young age that people who are good with no hope of reward and no threat of eternal damnation must be more moral, implicitly, than a person who is only moral because of threats or promises of reward. So I chose the higher path - righteous atheism.

 

[Bikewer]

I must admit I never had any "crisis of faith". I just lost interest. After a rather brief period of looking at other belief systems, I realized they were all equally dogmatic and devoid of evidence.

 

[Trakar]

I have an experience that in my mind caused Christianity to epic-ly fail as a belief system. I was always questioning the things they'd say, but this is the one thing that really stands out.

If you have any such experiences, please share them.

I was 11 or 12 years old, in a christian youth meeting, we were talking about the "Whoever believes in me shall never die" verse, and how it meant if we believed, we would live forever in heaven.

I innocently asked "what if you decide you are going to believe, for no other reason than to guarantee you'd go to heaven?" I was thinking this would be an easy way to guarantee that I'd go to heaven, I'd just believe, even though I thought it was all silly.

The leader said that didn't work, that Jesus would know that you are not being faithful for the right reasons.

Did anyone know that that? Jesus is going to break down the believers into- Those who really bought into it, and those who were only doing it so they'd go to heaven.

Anyway, I didn't go to church much after that, except to make my mom happy.

Basing one's beliefs, or disbeliefs on the understandings and skills of expression of someone else who may or may not believe as you do, seems logically and rationally flawed to begin with.

 

[Trakar]

Xcians are fond of saying "it doesn't work that way" in a knowing manner. The trouble is it doesn't work at all. I lost faith in Xcianity when Gawd failed to cure my measels.

Well, you seem to have survived the measels, but what led you to believe that Christianity involved instant gratification, wish fulfilment as a part of its logos?

 

[patchbunny]

Xcians are fond of saying "it doesn't work that way" in a knowing manner. The trouble is it doesn't work at all. I lost faith in Xcianity when Gawd failed to cure my measels.

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in His wisdom, doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked for forgiveness." --Emo Philips

 

[Resume]

Well, you seem to have survived the measels, but what led you to believe that Christianity involved instant gratification, wish fulfilment as a part of its logos?

What would lead anyone to believe it involved sincere gratification of any kind?

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Well, you seem to have survived the measels, but what led you to believe that Christianity involved instant gratification, wish fulfilment as a part of its logos?

Perhaps Cainkane1 read his Bible...

Matthew 21:22*(New International Version)
22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

John 14:12-13*(New International Version)
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

James 4:2*(New International Version)
2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.

Matthew 7:8*(New International Version)
8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

 

[Trakar]

What would lead anyone to believe it involved sincere gratification of any kind?

It is, apparently an innate need, the spiritualization of existence and a universe that is more complex than we will ever be capable of more than dimly and darkly perceiving or conceiving. Religion seems to be the more basic, heavily emotion-invested, default solution, philosophy is the more intellectual sophistication of this primal drive. Gratifications do not, necessarily, entail any thing more extensive or physically rewarding than satisfaction with one's life. Some people manage that just fine without religion or guiding philosophy, others desire or need assistance in attaining that state of satisfaction.

 

[Trakar]

Perhaps Cainkane1 read his Bible...

Matthew 21:22*(New International Version)
22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

John 14:12-13*(New International Version)
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

James 4:2*(New International Version)
2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.

Matthew 7:8*(New International Version)
8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Is every snippet of text (regardless of source, culture or translation) best, and most accurately interpretted with modern (and individual) perspective literality?

 

[Manopolus]

I actually read The Bible. The whole thing.

 

[MLH1138]

I find the whole idea of living forever a frightening one- assuming that "living" implies continued conciousness. To live with the limitations I have, with the same regrets, the same inadequacies forever? No thank you.

And what does the bible offer? Two choices: 1) An austere life in heaven or 2) Getting a red-hot poker up the you-know-where for all eternity.

Talk about Catch-22. Even if "God" does relax the "rules" for believers in Heaven, I can't imagine cavorting with nubile young women, bombing around ina Ferrari or doing other "fun stuff" that you denied in the real world goes down well up there. But even if it does, I'd get bored of that very quickly. Either way, heaven or hell, the Christian afterlife is full of dullness - FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Cheers "God". No thanks.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Is every snippet of text (regardless of source, culture or translation) best, and most accurately interpretted with modern (and individual) perspective literality?

Perhaps not. But your question was what led Cainkane1 to expect instant gratification. Whether he interpreted the quoted passages “accurately” or not, they certainly might have done the trick.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Xcians are fond of saying "it doesn't work that way" in a knowing manner. The trouble is it doesn't work at all. I lost faith in Xcianity when Gawd failed to cure my measels.

Well, you seem to have survived the measels, but what led you to believe that Christianity involved instant gratification, wish fulfilment as a part of its logos?

What about those who do not survive the measles? As for the second question, the idea that you can pray to God and receive stuff is one of the central tenets of Christianity, and there's tons of stories of prayers having been answered. It's little wonder someone, somewhere, will actually buy it.

 

[HansMustermann]

Dunno, I can't say there was some big moment. There just wasn't much pressure to be a Christian, outside of a couple of aunts who took me to church and stuff when I was a child.

Mind you, we're talking a child here, so I'm not even sure "Christian" is the right word. I mean, I saw Tom and Jerry hit each other with lead pipes and get run over by steam rollers, and pop right back, so some guy called Jesus doing the same was pretty unimpressive. If anything, he did need a couple of days, whereas Tom and Jerry stayed flat a couple of seconds tops. And I believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a few other things too, so one more sky daddy didn't even require much effort.

I guess I just gradually lost interest at some point. I kinda went through Deism and basically Pascal's Wager over a couple of years on the way back to atheist, and at some point I just couldn't be bothered to even pretend.

I wonder how many others are basically built the same and just keep reassuring themselves that they really really believe, just because of basically social pressure.

I guess some factors along the way included:

- actually reading the damned thing. Most people seem to have only a vague and cherry-picked impression of what's inside, and at times flat out wrong or rediscovering a historical heresy on their own, and maybe that's why they stick with it. As long as you can imagine it's along the lines of what you'd like, sure, it's cool. It's when you read the whole combined charge of primitive stupidity that it starts to no longer make much sense.

- actually reading about a few other religions, and reading the Quran at that too. Kinda puts the kibosh on any delusions that we're obviously right, ours is the only thing that makes sense, and everyone else is just stupid to follow some other prophet. Turns out that their stuff has as much claim to making sense, if you think about it. It also ruined much of the Pascal's Wager setup, let me tell you.

- actually trying my hand at creating content in video games and on a MUD. While it did drive the Deist point home that a creator _could_ exist outside his created universe (sorta like Blizzard exists outside World Of Warcraft) and be undetectable from inside that universe, it also raised more questions than it answered about religion. Mostly it just made it on par with a programmer wanting to be worshipped by the NPCs he created, and using the most hare-brained ways to get them to. I mean... why?

 

[MatildaGage]

When I was 5 I asked the priest who Adam and Eve's kids married, and he said each other.

It was all downhill from there.

The misogyny reinforced it all--women have smaller brains, women's job is to breed, women are born to follow, women are bad at math, women's menstrual periods are a punishment because they were tainted by Eve, blah blah blah.

 

[Fnord]

Religion in general (and Christianity in particular) became an Epic Fail for me when my ex divorced me, I was laid off and became homeless in just a few months, and then none of the church leaders I contacted for help did anything more than promise to pray for me.

It's been 20 years.

Now that I've re-married, have a job that gives me a whole month's worth of vacation, and am living in a nice home in a nice neighborhood, every time a church leader asks me to make a donation to their church, I simply tell them that I'll pray for their church's needs.

Fnord's Corollary to the Golden Rule: "Christians have done unto me as they have wanted me to do unto them."

 

[Swagger5]

Christianity has never failed me, and God has blessed me richly. Even through crisis God is there.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

It wasn't a last straw, really, but I got pretty offended when I was a teenager and doing things like the AIDS Walk New York and the annual breast cancer walk in Central Park and my church didn't give me a small donation for it when I asked.

********.