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The GOP and Immigration

Tmy

Philosopher
Tmy
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
6,487
The illegal immigration issue is a strange one. It seems that both Repubs and Demos are on the same side. THe "look the other way" side.

GW is looking to give illegals work status. How can that be? DOnt the republicans want to seal the borders and throw everyone out the country???? Or is that just lip service to the far right.

I can see why Repubs like illegals, theyre a great cheap labor pool. Plus GW loves to cort the hispanic vote. Is it just Californians who really care about illegal immigration? No one else seems to mind.
 
Let's be fair, my friend. The Dems want the Hispanic vote every bit as much as GW and that's why they've treated illegal immigration as a third-rail issue for some time. I don't doubt that GW is courting that vote as well and this recent act only shows to what length most politicians will go to snare the minority without any concern for the majority.

Dems love that cheap labor, also, and have argued consistently that immigrants "do the work that no one else wants to"....(although I've never been sure what they base that assumption on ????)

Anyway, I have no problem with immigrants coming to this country ...I just don't understand why they do it illegally. Dems argue that most immigrants at the California border are law-abiding folks and not the criminals and terrorists that our society fears they may be. But, if that's true, why don't they follow the legal process?

And, let's not forget that their illegal immigration, coupled with the free bennies they get for successfully crashing our borders, is putting quite a strain on the American pocketbook. I'm sure you've read about hospitals on the brink of bankruptcy, particularly in California and Arizona. (I won't ramble here... am sure you've heard the same headlines....)

Aren't we sending a message to the world that says we don't enforce our own immigration laws so, "Hey, come on over" ??

How on earth does it make sense to grant amnesty to those who have crossed illegally and then expect future immigrants to honor the law?

Maybe someone can enlighten me??? :(
 
I didnt reallyget into the dems cause I felt it was clear that they are ok with legals.

As for coming in legally...... the problem is that its a hard thing to do and it takes a long time. Imagine you live in Jersy and you want to go to New York cause they have better paying jobs and better life. You can wait years until you get the proper paperwork to go to NY, or you can just walk across the bridge. Which do you choose???

I think the amnestys are targetedto specif groups. Namely those who are working and been here a while (aka pulling there own weight). No body wants the non working criminal illegals to stay.

I think to say illegals are a drain is not really accurate. Fisrt off many govt services/programs are not availble to undocumented people. 2nd many illeagles have been here for years and have been hardworking taxpayers for years.

People forget that most illegals entered the country legally, THey BECOME ilegal when they overstay visas. Its not all run across the boarder stereotype.

And why woudl anyone want to go the legal rout? Its better when your legal. And if your not legal and your caught, your sent back and basically can never return to the states.
 
Tmy said:

I think the amnestys are targetedto specif groups. Namely those who are working and been here a while (aka pulling there own weight). No body wants the non working criminal illegals to stay.

Agreed

I think to say illegals are a drain is not really accurate. Fisrt off many govt services/programs are not availble to undocumented people. 2nd many illeagles have been here for years and have been hardworking taxpayers for years.

Disagree. I work closely with the health care industry and I can tell you, based on clients in Arizona and California, that the number of pregnant women who cross so that they can deliver their children in an American hospital for free, is staggering. And, since the child is born an American citizen, he/she becomes the beneficiary of entitlements such as health care, housing, etc.

People forget that most illegals entered the country legally, THey BECOME ilegal when they overstay visas. Its not all run across the boarder stereotype.

Perhaps most did enter legally some years ago but I wonder how true that is today? With an estimated 10 million illegals in the country today, I 've got to believe that more of that activity has been illegal in recent years than legal...

And why woudl anyone want to go the legal rout? Its better when your legal. And if your not legal and your caught, your sent back and basically can never return to the states.
Click to expand...

Actually it would seem you're not sent back....you can be granted working status and MADE legal. Although I agree with you that it would be best for all concerned if they migrated legally. I can't help but think that the situation is going to get worse over the next few years...
 
Bush is not, in my opinion, articulating a new Republican stance. He has personally been pro-immigrant for a long time. I think he differes from the majority in his party on this issue, and thinks it important enought to act on, even if unpopular.

Of course, Bush is in an enviable position. He can do whatever he wants, and he can't possiblt convince the far right to vote him out of office, or even to allow a Democrat to get elected. He can go as far left as he wishes on any popular issue, and take it away from the Dems.
 
Well, I think that 'throwing out the illegals' is a big part of his plan.

Consider this:

There are some 8 to 12 million illegal workers there in the USA, so if there were to be a problem with even a small portion of them, then dealing with that portion could be quite difficult since they do not officially exist. They have no SSN, no Selective Service Registration, no Voters Registration, no W-4 forms on file, and so on, thus it could be difficult for the authorities to locate and identify the illegal.

However, if these 8 to 12 million people were to sign up for a temporary 'legal' status, then it would be much easier for the authorities to round them up and throw them out (which will be much easier to do if they are temporary status to begin with) if it becomes necessary to actually do so.

On the one hand, this plan looks good for Bush since it shows that he is for the law.
On the other hand, this plan looks good for Bush since it shows he is for order.
On the other, other hand, this plan looks good for Bush since it shows that he is a "Compassionate Conservative".
On the other, other, other hand, this plan looks good since it will be able to provide the means to boot these people out of the USA if that ever becomes necessary.
 
I would say that the illegal drain in Az and Cali is far different than in other states.

I dont mind sending back illegals, but I do not like ridged deportation laws. Ive seen situations of people who came to the states as babies. THere parents overstay and build a life. Years later the baby is now an adult, americanized as any of us. Now he's being deported back to his "country", where he doesnt even know how to speak the language.
 
However, if the current illegals are even slightly suspicious of this plan (as I suspect they are) for the very reasons Crossbow cited, then it won't be very effective.

One question, though....

Why is GW (and the Dems, for that matter) so opposed to increasing security on our borders? This is the question that haunts me most and convinces me that politicians WANT illegal immigrants in this country. Some may argue that the cost of higher security on our borders is prohibitive but it certainly can't be any more prohibitive than the burden currently placed on taxpayers to keep subsidizing these guys.....can it?? :con2:
 
Ladyhawk said:
However, if the current illegals are even slightly suspicious of this plan (as I suspect they are) for the very reasons Crossbow cited, then it won't be very effective.

One question, though....

Why is GW (and the Dems, for that matter) so opposed to increasing security on our borders? This is the question that haunts me most and convinces me that politicians WANT illegal immigrants in this country. Some may argue that the cost of higher security on our borders is prohibitive but it certainly can't be any more prohibitive than the burden currently placed on taxpayers to keep subsidizing these guys.....can it?? :con2:
Click to expand...

2 reasons.

1. It looks bad. Xenophobia may not play well with the hispanic vote.

2. Waste of money. Think of how much it woudl cost to secure our boarders. Whats the benefit? A couple of less Mexicans give birth in US hospitals??? Remember its not that hard to enter legally. I think its like 1/2 of the current illegals entered legally and later became illegals. So sealing the border does nothing to stop that. Even the 911 guys entered legally, so sealed borders wouldnt have stopped them. Sealed borders does little to increase security. Your better off spending the money on INS agents to catch those who have overstayed.
 
Shrub has two choices: No jobs, or inflation.

He's choosing the "no jobs", in effect, by diluting the job market so as to drop the price of labor a great deal. Now, he's being creative, in some sense, because the jobs exist, but he's cut the salary by half or more...

It's a classic example of indifference to the common person.
 
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