The fastest way to end RELIGION?

[BS Investigator]

Contact with other intelligent life in the universe would end modern religions faster than anything else. Human reverence, and hopes, would then be turned toward the heavens, and to the "aliens" themselves, who would undoubtedly be far, far more advanced than we.

Even if contact is not made any time soon, modern religions will eventually be replaced (in 50-100 years?) as science advances, possibly with a sort of quasi-religion based on interstellar space travel, the colonization other planets and systems, and the hope (legends? myths?) of meeting other intelligent life, or discovering stunning new truths about our origins and future.

Bet on it.

A religion that stressed the magnificence of the universe as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by traditional faiths. Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge.

-- Carl Sagan

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Thomas Woolston said religion would be dead by 1900. Voltaire said he was too pessimistic; religion was ending around them.

...or how about Thomas Jefferson? "There is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."

I predict that religion will end the way it always does--with an n.

 

[BracesForImpact]

Contact with other intelligent life in the universe would end modern religions faster than anything else. Human reverence, and hopes, would then be turned toward the heavens, and to the "aliens" themselves, who would undoubtedly be far, far more advanced than we.

Even if contact is not made any time soon, modern religions will eventually be replaced (in 50-100 years?) as science advances, possibly with a sort of quasi-religion based on interstellar space travel, the colonization other planets and systems, and the hope (legends? myths?) of meeting other intelligent life, or discovering stunning new truths about our origins and future.

Bet on it.

I wouldn't, but then I'm not a betting man. Take Christianity as an example. Despite it's best attempts to hold back progress, it has been proven wrong time and time again. On our origins, on the heavens, on history, it's been shown to be wrong numerous times. Yet Christianity is still a major religion.

If we were to make contact with another civilization from outside our own solar system religion would do what it has always done. Adapt to the new circumstances. It may resist at first, and it may go kicking and screaming the entire way, but eventually it will change.

As humanity and science improve I do believe religion will shrink, but I somehow doubt we'll ever be fully rid of it.

 

[BS Investigator]

I said religion would be "replaced" not "ended" by a this new quasi-religion based on science, space exploration, contact... and myths about that science, exploration and contact.

Mythology expert Joseph Campbell, right before he died, said that all the new myths that would stir humanity (ie religions) would be based in outer space. And when it comes to the psychology of religion and myth, there is no greater expert than Joe Campbell.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I said religion would be "replaced" not "ended" by a this new quasi-religion based on science, space exploration, contact... and myths about that science, exploration and contact.

Oh, sorry. It must have been the thread title and the first sentence of the OP that gave me this bizarre idea that you said anything about religion "ending." Please forgive.

 

[ceo_esq]

There's a highly interesting science fiction novel called The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell, that deals with some of the religious implications of first contact. In that book, thanks to squabbling and red tape at the UN, the first humans to reach the homeworld of the extraterrestrials are the Jesuits.

 

[BS Investigator]

Oh, sorry. It must have been the thread title and the first sentence of the OP that gave me this bizarre idea that you said anything about religion "ending." Please forgive.

Gee, let's deal with semantics rather than the point.

Yes, modern religions would be ENDED, because they would be REPLACED by a quasi-religion based on science, exploration and myths about, or actual, contact. This "science religion" would be like science itself -- self-correcting -- so that's why I called it a quasi-religion.

 

[BS Investigator]

There's a highly interesting science fiction novel called The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell, that deals with some of the religious implications of first contact. In that book, thanks to squabbling and red tape at the UN, the first humans to reach the homeworld of the extraterrestrials are the Jesuits.

Is it a good book? From a skeptic's perspective? I found it on amazon, used, for $3.50. Just give me the word and I'll put it in my cart!

 

[Ryokan]

And by religion you mean what? There ARE religions that have no problem coping with modern society, science and technology. Buddhism, for example.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Gee, let's deal with semantics rather than the point.

I dealt with the point. You brought up the semantics. People have been predicting just what you have for centuries, if not longer. And they've all been wrong.

Every new advance we make will simply be incorporated into the current religious framework, even contact with other beings. Over time (centuries, not years), it is probable that many of the religions we have today will no longer be around--by name, at least. Religious thought evolves, ideas get replaced and reworked in bits, not wholesale. The situation in your OP is a pipe dream.

 

[GroundStrength]

Contact with other intelligent life in the universe would end modern religions faster than anything else. Human reverence, and hopes, would then be turned toward the heavens, and to the "aliens" themselves, who would undoubtedly be far, far more advanced than we.

Actually I think that the religious-fundy-wackos (both xian and muslim) would assimilate the visitors. Much like the Borg...

...or fit them into their mythology somehow (like demons or something).

But we can hope...

 

[BS Investigator]

Every new advance we make will simply be incorporated into the current religious framework, even contact with other beings. Over time (centuries, not years), it is probable that many of the religions we have today will no longer be around--by name, at least. Religious thought evolves, ideas get replaced and reworked in bits, not wholesale. The situation in your OP is a pipe dream.

What situation? Of course contact is a pipe dream, but the rapid advance of science is not. Look what is already happening, especially in Europe, East Asia, and America's major cities. Religion is on the decline where science has thrived. This coming quasi-religion based on science is no pipe dream, my friend.

 

[Piscivore]

Also, add James Blish, A Case of Conscience to that list.


Religion will not end until there is a massive eugenics program that forbids and prevents non-literates from breeding. IMO. Something along the lines of a genetic sterilisation virus in the water supply, and the antidote soaked into the covers of really long books.

 

[Palimpsest]

Contact with other intelligent life in the universe would end modern religions faster than anything else. Human reverence, and hopes, would then be turned toward the heavens, and to the "aliens" themselves, who would undoubtedly be far, far more advanced than we.

Even if contact is not made any time soon, modern religions will eventually be replaced (in 50-100 years?) as science advances, possibly with a sort of quasi-religion based on interstellar space travel, the colonization other planets and systems, and the hope (legends? myths?) of meeting other intelligent life, or discovering stunning new truths about our origins and future.

Bet on it.

I think I'll keep my dollar and not bet. It's a nice thought, I grant you, but from what I've seen, new sci-fi based religions (the Church of All Worlds, for one) are basically old religions with a modern polish. UFO-loving New-Agers worship Grey aliens or whatever instead of angels, and wait for Planet X set up harmonic vibrations in the Solar System to come sweep the bad people away, instead of Christ coming back in His glory. "What The Bleep Do We Know?" is just age-old bulldroppings with a veneer of pseudoscience. Meh. Nihil novi sub sole, maybe.

I predict that the old-time religions will either ignore scientific advances or move with the times (albeit slowly and creakily).

There will always be awe towards the natural world. And, being people, we'll always tell ourselves stories about where we came from and what's out there, and whether we're alone in the universe. That's fine, and perfectly healthy. But making up myths about eventual interspecies contact, is that really progress? Do we need to imagine that the "aliens" (why the quotes?) are "undoubtedly [...] far, far more advanced than we"? Sounds a bit like cargo cult mentality to me.

As for our future, I'm thinking we'll learn about it the old-fashioned way: by living it.

 

[triadboy]

Teach Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Jainism, Shintoism, etc. to Junior High/High School students all over the world. After they hear all the other wacky religions, surely theirs will sound just a wacky. Eventually religion will become more of a fairy tale. "They used to believe what?!"



Re: ID

They should clump all these religions into a course called "Intelligent Design" and keep the Science class going a few doors down.

 

[BS Investigator]

Re: Re: The fastest way to end RELIGION?

There will always be awe towards the natural world. And, being people, we'll always tell ourselves stories about where we came from and what's out there, and whether we're alone in the universe. That's fine, and perfectly healthy. But making up myths about eventual interspecies contact, is that really progress? Do we need to imagine that the "aliens" (why the quotes?) are "undoubtedly [...] far, far more advanced than we"? Sounds a bit like cargo cult mentality to me.

It's just basic logic that tells us other intelligent beings in the cosmos are likely to be FAR more advanced than we. If they have survived the early stages of technology (not blowing themselves up with hydrogen bombs, for example) then the chances that we will encounter them at exactly the same stage we are at technologically (a 50 year span of time?) is utterly against all odds in astronomical timescales. More likely, if they are commuting between systems or broadcasting radio signals, they will be many thousands of years in advance of human beings. And when it comes to technology, you know how much progress can be made in only say, 500 years. If you flew a helicopter back to medieval England, for example, then hopped out blasting some rap music while you climbed into a space rocket and blasted off to the moon for a short vacation, the medieval denizens of England would probably fall to their knees and pledge themselves to you as a god. Well, any intelligent civilization we might come across in the Milky Way would likely be so much more advanced than us, that they would almost certainly seem "magical" or "god-like" to us. Thus, a quasi-religion based on their technology or science or knowledge would instantly take over.

That's just one scenario... heh.

 

[Dredred]

Re: Re: Re: The fastest way to end RELIGION?

Well, any intelligent civilization we might come across in the Milky Way would likely be so much more advanced than us, that they would almost certainly seem "magical" or "god-like" to us. Thus, a quasi-religion based on their technology or science or knowledge would instantly take over.

Maybe the tribes of Amazon Indians who weren't aware of modern culture and its technology, and have been discovered as late as in the 2nd half of the 20th century, are an indication of how we would react to first contact with technologically superior aliens.

From this page:

In the late 70`s the first contact was established between these Indians and the outside world. The Indians became shocked when they understood that there was life outside their local surroundings. The Awa Guaja Indians live in the most impenetrable and unspoilt part of the jungle in Amazon in the Brazilian State Maranhao.

Of the 350 Awa Guaja Indians live only 100 in the jungle in the traditional way. Others live in four villages in Maranhao. But after they have lived so isolated for so long, their immunity system is not able to resist "unknown" sicknesses. Many of the Indians in the villages have been struck by malaria and tuberculosis, but have been saved by medicines. It has been said, that the day these Indians understood that they were not alone in the world, they became depressed. When they saw the advanced equipment and technology from the world outside, they lost their live spirit and sunk down.

 

[BS Investigator]

The Aztecs and Mayans didn't have active seti programs looking for Europeans. I think the Europeans kind of caught them by surprise. And anyway, they obviously came with hostile intent.

A civilization that has survived and not blown itself up in the early stages of technology, would likely have figured out how to tame their aggressive tendencies, almost by definition.

If they are hostile, well, hell, not much we could do about it

 

[Dr Adequate]

There's a highly interesting science fiction novel called The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell, that deals with some of the religious implications of first contact. In that book, thanks to squabbling and red tape at the UN, the first humans to reach the homeworld of the extraterrestrials are the Jesuits.

This is the first half of a diptych. The second book is called Children Of God and ideally should be read consecutively after the first.

Excellent books.

 

[Palimpsest]

Re: Re: Re: The fastest way to end RELIGION?

It's just basic logic that tells us other intelligent beings in the cosmos are likely to be FAR more advanced than we.

Mmmyeah... possibly. I won't argue that point.

If you flew a helicopter back to medieval England, for example, then hopped out blasting some rap music while you climbed into a space rocket and blasted off to the moon for a short vacation, the medieval denizens of England would probably fall to their knees and pledge themselves to you as a god. Well, any intelligent civilization we might come across in the Milky Way would likely be so much more advanced than us, that they would almost certainly seem "magical" or "god-like" to us. Thus, a quasi-religion based on their technology or science or knowledge would instantly take over.

So what would be "quasi" about that religion, then? Seriously, I have a hard time seeing how these alien-inspired religions you keep talking about would be significantly different than what we've got now. Medieval people might well fall on their knees before time-travellers from the year 3000, but I submit that a lot of people (yes, even in industrialized countries) would still do that now. Forget the quote marks. Aliens would be magic. They would be gods. Or demons, depending. People would fear them, and see them through the veils of their own preconceptions.