Dr Adequate
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I hope someone videoed this.
Let's hear your opinions.
Let's hear your opinions.
The Derren Brown Wars (Cont.) --- The BMX Trick
- Thread starter Dr Adequate
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Azrael 5
Philosopher
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Nothing like a Derren Brown war! Just dont tell subpers.
Here for those that didnt see is the gist.Simon Pegg(Spaced and Shaun of the Dead) is asked to think of a present he wanted as a child(there is large box behind them)all the while Derren gives a speech about what he likes to buy people ,he occasionally touches Simon gently on the arm when using certain phrases(mimicking hypnosis anchoring or pattern interrupt).At the end Simon is asked what he thought of and he says "BMX bike" which is then revealed to be in the box!
The clincher comes when the scene is replayed with subtitles,and we read what Derren was saying,it has subtle bike references disguised in the speech!
But then Derren fools all,as Simon Pegg brings a note from his wallet which he wrote(so he thinks)BMX bike,except the paper says Action Man(I think)in his handwriting.He is emphatic that he wrote BMX bike,and that he had actually wanted an Action MAN as a child!
If someone else doesnt beat me to it,I will write up the words Derren uses to apparently force Pegg to say BMX bike.
Here for those that didnt see is the gist.Simon Pegg(Spaced and Shaun of the Dead) is asked to think of a present he wanted as a child(there is large box behind them)all the while Derren gives a speech about what he likes to buy people ,he occasionally touches Simon gently on the arm when using certain phrases(mimicking hypnosis anchoring or pattern interrupt).At the end Simon is asked what he thought of and he says "BMX bike" which is then revealed to be in the box!
The clincher comes when the scene is replayed with subtitles,and we read what Derren was saying,it has subtle bike references disguised in the speech!
But then Derren fools all,as Simon Pegg brings a note from his wallet which he wrote(so he thinks)BMX bike,except the paper says Action Man(I think)in his handwriting.He is emphatic that he wrote BMX bike,and that he had actually wanted an Action MAN as a child!
If someone else doesnt beat me to it,I will write up the words Derren uses to apparently force Pegg to say BMX bike.
I think he had 'Leather Jacket' written down (unless I was in a parallel world at the time!).
Simon Pegg is a fairly well known celeb nowadays and doubt he would have knowingly acted as a stooge. I can only think that there was some more 'manipulation' that happened prior to the cameras rolling or that the note in Simons pocket had been switched, hence Simon not having a clue why he would have written 'Leather Jacket' as his ideal present....
What also bugged me was how he managed to guess (apart from the last time) the money in peoples wallets. Did he have someone on a local stall who had observed people putting money away earlier feeding him info?
Simon Pegg is a fairly well known celeb nowadays and doubt he would have knowingly acted as a stooge. I can only think that there was some more 'manipulation' that happened prior to the cameras rolling or that the note in Simons pocket had been switched, hence Simon not having a clue why he would have written 'Leather Jacket' as his ideal present....
What also bugged me was how he managed to guess (apart from the last time) the money in peoples wallets. Did he have someone on a local stall who had observed people putting money away earlier feeding him info?
Nucular
Illuminator
I put that I don't know how it was done, but I think it was a magic trick.
I didn't see this one, but it's very similar presentationally to one I saw live last week - the 'grand finale' trick involved a great chain of pseudo-random 'choosing' by various members of the audience, which led up to a single word being chosen from a selection of newspapers, pages and words on the page. Brown then played back a videoed and edited selection of things he'd said to us during the show which he claimed had manipulated the choices subliminally - dropping in things we hadn't noticed like "choose Daily Mail" into an unconnected sentence all throughout the performance.
It's jolly clever misdirection in my opinion - the conversations we were all having as we left - and I eavesdropped on a lot as well - were all around whether we thought that was how he'd really done it, which stopped us looking too closely at the other stuff he'd done, which in my mind resembled well-executed 'forces' rather than hypnotic techniques.
So I'd speculate that the BMX trick, with its similar presentation of playing back a speech scattered with apparently subliminal messages, uses a similar 'cover', to make us all focus on the windowdressing rather than the mechanics of the trick.
It'd be easy, but a bit lazy, to add that he could have done some extra stuff before filming, or cut out some crucial moments, but my gut tells me that he wouldn't do Blaine-type naughtiness like that. But that's probably what he wants us to think.
I didn't see this one, but it's very similar presentationally to one I saw live last week - the 'grand finale' trick involved a great chain of pseudo-random 'choosing' by various members of the audience, which led up to a single word being chosen from a selection of newspapers, pages and words on the page. Brown then played back a videoed and edited selection of things he'd said to us during the show which he claimed had manipulated the choices subliminally - dropping in things we hadn't noticed like "choose Daily Mail" into an unconnected sentence all throughout the performance.
It's jolly clever misdirection in my opinion - the conversations we were all having as we left - and I eavesdropped on a lot as well - were all around whether we thought that was how he'd really done it, which stopped us looking too closely at the other stuff he'd done, which in my mind resembled well-executed 'forces' rather than hypnotic techniques.
So I'd speculate that the BMX trick, with its similar presentation of playing back a speech scattered with apparently subliminal messages, uses a similar 'cover', to make us all focus on the windowdressing rather than the mechanics of the trick.
It'd be easy, but a bit lazy, to add that he could have done some extra stuff before filming, or cut out some crucial moments, but my gut tells me that he wouldn't do Blaine-type naughtiness like that. But that's probably what he wants us to think.
Nucular
Illuminator
Heh, maybe he's sponsored by the Mail...Yeah, I found that by the time we'd all discussed whether he'd manipulated the audience en masse to come up with that word, I'd forgotten some of the details of the other bits that were probably the key to working out what he actually did!
As an aside, assuming you didn't see him at the Northampton Derngate, do you remember if a piece of paper 'accidentally' fell on the floor towards the end of that trick? I think it was a genuine accident, but probably not if you saw that too...
TheBoyPaj
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I thought the BMX force was a bit too obvious. I can't have been the only one who guessed before he had finished speaking.
I go for envelope switch and fake handwriting, personally.
(By the way, I've finished my analysis of the seance video. It's on the other thread.)
By the way again, are we breaking the "no magic revelation" rule by speculating like this? I mean, I know we're only shooting the breeze but we MIGHT be getting close. Ah, I expect a mod will step in if we go too far.
I go for envelope switch and fake handwriting, personally.
(By the way, I've finished my analysis of the seance video. It's on the other thread.)
By the way again, are we breaking the "no magic revelation" rule by speculating like this? I mean, I know we're only shooting the breeze but we MIGHT be getting close. Ah, I expect a mod will step in if we go too far.
Dr Adequate
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Well, he and his team must have done something before the film started, if it was a trick involving switching envelopes.Nucular said:
Specifically:
(1) They have to switch envelopes, read SP's envelopeand buy a red BMX bike (what if he'd wanted something much harder to get hold of, or much more expensive?)
(2) They have to come up with a spiel that would make it seem as though "BMX bike" was being forced. (Try it for a randomly chosen desirable object. What would you do if the target really was "leather jacket", say? How long does it take you to work out a piece of suggestion similar to DB's?)
(3) DB has to learn the spiel so that he can rattle it off very fluently and rapidly without notes or prompts.
(4) They have to decorate the film studio so that it seemed to subliminally suggest bicycles. (Again, we might wonder how you'd do it if the target was something else.)
All that to pretend that he's doing a trick one way when he's doing it another. Only stage (1) would be essential to the trick being mystifying --- the other bits are essential only to DB's supposed demystification of the trick. Actually, stage (4) wouldn't be essential --- that would be just gratuitous.
Now, when I look at it like that... I have to wonder.
It would be interesting to know how much time elapsed between the first meeting between SP and one of DB's team, and the bit we see on TV.
It would also be interesting to know what SP now remembers writing.
In the "explanation" of the trick, DB mentioned that people watching at home might feel a craving for BMX bikes. Did anyone? That would clear the question up nicely.
Minkster --- I thought I recognised him, but couldn't think who it was. Thanks. Well, there goes DB's credibility --- he said "no actors or stooges" --- or perhaps he means to imply that SP is no actor.
Nucular
Illuminator
Heh, well yeah, though I kind of had in mind extra bits of trick we don't get to see - preparation is kind of assumed.
Would definitely be interesting to know the amount of time that had elapsed, and what the guy remembers now...
Would definitely be interesting to know the amount of time that had elapsed, and what the guy remembers now...
What would that clear up? I imagine a tiny proportion of the TV audience (= lots of people) probably convinced themselves they had felt a 'craving' for BMXs, purely from the suggestion.
