The Derek Chauvin/George Floyd Murder Trial

[chrispy]

I don't know if this belongs here or in the Trials and Errors category, so feel free to move.

This trial deserves a stand alone thread. Jury selection has just begun and there have been some interesting updates, such as the following:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ly-member-time-allowed-chauvin-trial-n1259313

I just thought that there should be one single, consolidated thread for what should be a contentious trial.

 

[plague311]

Jury selection has just begun and there have been some interesting updates

I believe the selection is on hold now due to the prosecution looking to add 3rd degree murder (the easiest to convict on in this case) to the list of charges.

As far as the trial only allowing one family member, on some level it makes sense. Though I think they should have a remote room setup for them to watch if it's not going to be televised, which I'm not sure if it will or won't be.

 

[chrispy]

I believe the selection is on hold now due to the prosecution looking to add 3rd degree murder (the easiest to convict on in this case) to the list of charges.

Yes. Jury selection starts tomorrow
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/08/us/derek-chauvin-trial-jury/index.html

 

[Bikewer]

Just my opinion, but adding the “3rd degree” charge tells me the prosecution is worried.

I fear that any way the trial goes, the result will be ugly.

 

[Nessie]

The biggest most divisive trial since OJ. Pretty much everyone has already decided their preferred verdict and they await that verdict before deciding to praise the court or condemn it and riot.

 

[Brainster]

Just my opinion, but adding the “3rd degree” charge tells me the prosecution is worried.

I fear that any way the trial goes, the result will be ugly.

One of the articles linked above said that Chauvin was ready to plead on 3rd degree, but AG Barr refused the deal (apparently the deal needed federal approval because the Justice Department had to agree not to prosecute on civil rights grounds).

 

[Thermal]

The biggest most divisive trial since OJ. Pretty much everyone has already decided their preferred verdict and they await that verdict before deciding to praise the court or condemn it and riot.

With the benefit of having seen full video, yes, many of us have reached a solid conclusion that, barring some really out-from-left-field bombshell, is enough. The "police are only trained poodles" defense is a no-go. That was a horrificly calloused murder

 

[ponderingturtle]

With the benefit of having seen full video, yes, many of us have reached a solid conclusion that, barring some really out-from-left-field bombshell, is enough. The "police are only trained poodles" defense is a no-go. That was a horrificly calloused murder

The question is that many feel that the police are entitled to commit murder as they see fit.

 

[plague311]

With the benefit of having seen full video, yes, many of us have reached a solid conclusion that, barring some really out-from-left-field bombshell, is enough. The "police are only trained poodles" defense is a no-go. That was a horrificly calloused murder

I think what it will boil down to in this case is the drug report from Floyd's autopsy. That's what the defense has been using thus far. That the amount of meth, fentanyl, and the underlying COVID-19 positive test were what caused the death, not the kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes.

From what I understand of MN law, the 3rd degree charge would be the easiest to get him on because it wouldn't require any intent from Chauvin. Just that his actions contributed (or maybe caused? I can't remember) Floyds death. Which is what I am most prone to side with.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The biggest most divisive trial since OJ. Pretty much everyone has already decided their preferred verdict and they await that verdict before deciding to praise the court or condemn it and riot.

Seems like the trial for the Rodney King beating is the more apt comparison.

We have a moment of inexcusable police brutality caught on tape. Everyone who isn't a bootlicker understands that this was a crime committed by a cop on duty. Now the moment of truth to see if the system actually holds him accountable.

In the case of King, the officers escaped justice and the LA riots kicked off in response. Rioting seems likely should Chavuin likewise escape justice.

 

[chrispy]

It appears that the trial will be live on Court TV and some streaming channel through Peacock. I, for one, will be watching closely.

 

[Craig4]

I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict.

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.

 

[Thermal]

I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict.

We really should have a flat charge of murder, and let the jury determine the degree after trial.

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.

Exactly. Drugs, drunk, poor health, whatever. Chauvin willingly and knowingly kept that knee on till no pulse and far beyond. Murder.

 

[plague311]

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.

I certainly agree with you, but this is still Minnesota and all it takes is 1 juror for a mistrial.

That's why I like the reasoning to pause and add murder 3. Like you said, it's a good way for the jury to come to a reasonable conclusion that he contributed to Floyd's death, at the very least.

 

[acbytesla]

I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict.

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.

I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers.

 

[Distracted1]

We really should have a flat charge of murder, and let the jury determine the degree after trial.



Exactly. Drugs, drunk, poor health, whatever. Chauvin willingly and knowingly kept that knee on till no pulse and far beyond. Murder.

That doesn't make a lot of sense from the standpoint of trying to get a conviction.
For some "murder" might necessitate an intent to kill, for others an indifference to the possibility of death could be enough.

The more specific the definition of the charge is , the more likely a conviction could result.

 

[Darat]

I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers.

And I think the USA being a common law system incorporates the concept of the “eggshell skull” rule - which means that if someone is injured more than one would have expected of an “average” person in the same circumstances it is tough on the perpetrator of the crime. It is summed up as “you take your victim as you find him.”

 

[chrispy]

I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers.

Simply shifting the blame. We all know that this. "I didn't mean to force my knee into neck for 8 minutes until he died. It was the drugs!!"

 

[gnome]

And, bonus, to get in there that he was a druggie and therefore his life didn't matter.

I am OK with 3rd degree however, even if I suspect the crime was greater. They have to assess what evidence they have to bring, and what a jury will go for reliably. It's not like they can try for 2, and say "But if you don't like that you can convict on 3".

Maybe that would be a good idea, if our court system allowed a jury the option to convict on a lesser charge. But it doesn't.

 

[chrispy]

And, bonus, to get in there that he was a druggie and therefore his life didn't matter.

I am OK with 3rd degree however, even if I suspect the crime was greater. They have to assess what evidence they have to bring, and what a jury will go for reliably. It's not like they can try for 2, and say "But if you don't like that you can convict on 3".

Maybe that would be a good idea, if our court system allowed a jury the option to convict on a lesser charge. But it doesn't.

Maybe I'm ignorant of the law (I haven't lived in the states in years), but I thought that was the purpose of including other charges in a trial. "He isn't guilty of charges A, B, and C, but we find him guilty of X,Y,Z".