The British are even weaker than Americans

[username]

pathetic

News of the breakthrough comes as a Times poll conducted in the aftermath of the bombings indicates that an overwhelming majority of the British public favours a tough approach to terrorist suspects. Almost 90 per cent of people want the police to be given new powers to arrest people suspected of planning terrorist acts, tighter immigration controls and strict baggage inspections.

90%?!?!?!

For crying out loud, where is the nation of freedom loving people I can emigrate to? Seems like the world is filled to the brim with a bunch of fearful, big government types that never saw a liberty they actually cared about preserving.

I thought slavery in the civiized world ended before I was born, but there seem to be no shortage of idiots desiring to walk down that path voluntarily.

Where do the sane people live? Y'know the folks who don't feel the need to mess with others who have a government protecting civil liberties rather than using every opportunity to remove them?

Better still, where is the nation with people who are actually willing to fight to preserve their liberty rather than rushing to give it up?

 

[RandFan]

For crying out loud, where is the nation of freedom loving people I can emigrate to? Seems like the world is filled to the brim with a bunch of fearful, big government types that never saw a liberty they actually cared about preserving.

I thought slavery in the civiized world ended before I was born, but there seem to be no shortage of idiots desiring to walk down that path voluntarily.

Where do the sane people live? Y'know the folks who don't feel the need to mess with others who have a government protecting civil liberties rather than using every opportunity to remove them?

Better still, where is the nation with people who are actually willing to fight to preserve their liberty rather than rushing to give it up?

So, anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot and is insane? Increased security is slavery? People are rushing to give away their liberty? Whatever.

 

[Mycroft]

Almost 90 per cent of people want the police to be given new powers...

New powers?

I vote for flying or super-strength. Can we have more than one?

 

[waitew]

I don't know.It does seem awfully convenient.The Soviet Union breaks apart in 1991.The cold war is over & America is left without a worthy enemy.
At the same time technology is making it possible to track & spy upon large numbers of people,But without a threat the people wont tolerate it.
Then just when needed a new omnipresent..could be anyone..can never be defeated enemy 'terrorism' arrives..right on que.Now the people are begging to for 'Big brother' to 'protect' them by shredding the constitution & establishing a police state!!
I tend to agree with Winston Smith's girlfriend concerning the nature of the attacks.

 

[Kerberos]

Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

New powers?

I vote for flying or super-strength. Can we have more than one?

Does capes and underwear outside you pants count as powers?

 

[Snide]

pathetic



90%?!?!?!

For crying out loud, where is the nation of freedom loving people I can emigrate to? Seems like the world is filled to the brim with a bunch of fearful, big government types that never saw a liberty they actually cared about preserving.

I thought slavery in the civiized world ended before I was born, but there seem to be no shortage of idiots desiring to walk down that path voluntarily.

Where do the sane people live? Y'know the folks who don't feel the need to mess with others who have a government protecting civil liberties rather than using every opportunity to remove them?

Better still, where is the nation with people who are actually willing to fight to preserve their liberty rather than rushing to give it up?

When I know what "new powers" they are ok with, I'll let you know whether I think 90% is high enough to call them "insane."

 

[Ladewig]

Better still, where is the nation with people who are actually willing to fight to preserve their liberty rather than rushing to give it up?

Lame post. Given that the U.S. has already instituted these changes, it is foolish to suggest that the Brits are weaker than the Americans for wanting these changes. Pointing out the superabundance of public cameras in Britain would have been a better approach.

Trolling as bad as this effort make me long for the days when Jedi Knight was around.

 

[Manny]

Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

When I know what "new powers" they are ok with, I'll let you know whether I think 90% is high enough to call them "insane."

Speaking of which, I was unable to find the actual poll on the Times' site. Anyone have any better luck?

 

[Manny]

Better still, where is the nation with people who are actually willing to fight to preserve their liberty rather than rushing to give it up?

Without further information I can't say whether I agree with the consensus as stated in the poll. But I will tell you what I'll tell anyone who will listen. There's a new civil liberty which I assert. I assert the absolute right to sit in my office peacefully trading bonds without having a freakin' 767 slam into my window, collapsing my building and vaporizing me to my component molecules. And people are just going to have to find a way to fit that civil liberty in with the others.

 

[Cylinder]

Re: Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

Speaking of which, I was unable to find the actual poll on the Times' site. Anyone have any better luck?

It was a Populus poll. Their site does not have the questionnaire linked at this point. The Times story does not list the actual questions, though has a pretty thorough breakdown of the poll, so I have to assume at this point the questions asked were related fairly (a dangerous assumption) in the article.

A large majority supported measures to reduce the threat of any future terrorist attacks. Nearly nine out of ten favoured giving the police new powers to arrest people they suspect of planning terrorist acts (86 per cent), tighter controls on who comes into the country (88 per cent) and security check and baggage inspections at stations (89 per cent).

More than two thirds of the public (70 per cent) backed an increase in police powers to stop and search people on the street, while three fifths (61 per cent) said that they supported the introduction of ID cards. There are were marked regional variations.

Those living the furthest away from London were the strongest supporters of tough action.While 95 per cent of Scots support security checks and baggage inspections at stations, 84 per cent in London and the South East back this measure.

Working-class respondents were stronger supporters than the middle classes of giving the police new powers. While 93 per cent of unskilled workers wanted the police to have new powers to arrest people suspected of planning terrorist acts, 79 per cent of professionals and managers did so.

Security checks and baggage inspections at stations were backed by 92 per cent of women and 85 per cent of men.

 

[Rob Lister]

pathetic



90%?!?!?!

For crying out loud, where is the nation of freedom loving people I can emigrate to?

Sure! Try Iran. There, you are more than welcome to plan terrorist attacks against the west with impunity. You might even get a government grant if you submit a well-written strategy.

 

[Manny]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

It was a Populus poll.

Thanks, Cylinder. I dunno, the poll questions as portrayed seem too general to get much worked up about or agree or disagree with.

 

[Cylinder]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

Thanks, Cylinder. I dunno, the poll questions as portrayed seem too general to get much worked up about or agree or disagree with.

I tend to want to see the actual questions before debating the meaning of poll results.

 

[Kaydens]

Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

There's a new civil liberty which I assert. I assert the absolute right to sit in my office peacefully trading bonds without having a freakin' 767 slam into my window, collapsing my building and vaporizing me to my component molecules. And people are just going to have to find a way to fit that civil liberty in with the others.

Indeed, I have to say that lots of people like to bandy the accusation that people are impinging on their Civil Liberties, without thinking things through.

With freedom comes responsibility (I'm sure that's a quote but I can't attribute it off the top of my head).

There are other examples of this kind of behaviour:

Smoking is a good example, I've heard people complain that non-smoking buildings violate their right to smoke. Yet equally non-smokers have a right to breathe clean(ish) air. If there's no give and take then whose rights do you respect?

As Snide and others have mentioned, we should really look at what the new powers are in detail before throwing our arms up in the air and screaming "Give me freedom or give me death!"

Kaydens.

PS. I wonder how long it'll be before someone brings up that quote from Benjamin Franklin?

 

[tkingdoll]

Re: Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

Smoking is a good example, I've heard people complain that non-smoking buildings violate their right to smoke. Yet equally non-smokers have a right to breathe clean(ish) air. If there's no give and take then whose rights do you respect?

The simple answer to that example is, the majority. Only 40% of the UK population smoke, so the 60% who don't, get to breathe the air of their choice. It's not even about the health implications, it's simply about doing what benefits MOST people.

The British debate about ID cards is also a good example of people whinging about restrictions of their liberties, but I've yet to hear anyone tell me exactly how a biometric ID card will change their life for the worse (or better, for that matter).

"With freedom comes responsibility (I'm sure that's a quote but I can't attribute it off the top of my head)."

Perhaps you're thinking of "with great power comes great responsibility", which is from Spiderman

 

[Kaydens]

Originally posted by tkingdoll
Perhaps you're thinking of "with great power comes great responsibility", which is from Spiderman

It's possible I was thinking of that but I was under the impression that the freedom/responsibility one was an actual quote (you know, from antiquity and stuff) perhaps I'm cross quoting, The price of Freedom/Spiderman, I just don't know anymore.

Kaydens.

 

[tkingdoll]

It's possible I was thinking of that but I was under the impression that the freedom/responsibility one was an actual quote (you know, from antiquity and stuff) perhaps I'm cross quoting, The price of Freedom/Spiderman, I just don't know anymore.

Kaydens.

I was just kidding! It was Eleanor Roosevelt.

 

[Kaydens]

I was just kidding! It was Eleanor Roosevelt.

So! You thought you could pull the wool over my eyes eh?

I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse!

Kaydens.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

The British debate about ID cards is also a good example of people whinging about restrictions of their liberties, but I've yet to hear anyone tell me exactly how a biometric ID card will change their life for the worse (or better, for that matter).

You appear to have this the wrong way round. The government wants to spend billions on a computerised system (which on their past record will probably be delivered years late, massively over budget and not work properly - CSA, Inland Revenue, National Insurance, Passport Office) and can provide no clear definitive statement of exactly what benefit this will bring. Maybe, just maybe, the onus should be on those in favour of imposing ID cards on everyone to justify themselves, rather than demand it of others?

Oh, and to answer your specific point. The fee (which has already increased from the officially announced £93 to a working estimate of £300 per person will change my life for the worse.

"Instead of wasting hundreds of millions of pounds on compulsory ID cards as the Tory Right demand, let that money provide thousands more police officers on the beat in our local communities" - Tony Blair, Labour Party conference 1995.

Nice to see he is still opposed to wasting hundreds of millions of pounds - he wants to waste tens of billions instead.

 

[username]

Re: Re: The British are even weaker than Americans

When I know what "new powers" they are ok with, I'll let you know whether I think 90% is high enough to call them "insane."

I can understand your point, but my point is the trend of government and it's law enforcement is to always want more power, more control. It is the nature of government.

When a terrorist attack occurs, a flurry of legislation gets approved giving them exactly that.

If our liberties can be represented by the number 100 and every attack results in legislation which reduces our liberties by 1, the eventual result isn't difficult to compute.

That citizens seem eager to reduce their liberties incrementally is what I view as insane.

Government does not preserve the liberties of the people, it never has and never will. People preserve their liberties.

That is what I don't see happening, rather the opposite is occuring.