That Static Motor From "Atlas Shrugged"

[BPSCG]

In Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged, the hero is a scientist who invents an electric motor that gets its power by tapping into the static electricity in the atmosphere, providing a source of virtually limitless energy. My initial reaction was to dismiss it as being a perpetual motion fantasy, just a device for the novel's plot. But when I thought about it a little, it it occurred to me that it's not really a perpetual motion machine, because she doesn't posit a machine with no energy input, and doesn't claim it runs 100% (or more) efficiently; she just posits a machine that can tap into a vast source of energy.

My question for the scientists out there: Is this something that is at least theoretically possible? Or does it violate the laws of physics or gravity or something?

 

[arcticpenguin]

"Static electricity in the atmosphere"? Sounds like lightning.

Given it's a work of fiction, I would cut her some slack. It's the wackos who make outlandish claims for their alleged actual inventions that irk me.

 

[BPSCG]

"Static electricity in the atmosphere"? Sounds like lightning.

Agreed, and I know it's possible to catch a lightning charge, or at least part of one (Benjamin Franklin's contemporaries did it, if I recall correctly, with their Leyden jars), but what she's referring to here is tapping into just the small atmospheric imbalance that exists at any time that isn't sufficient to cause a spark (lightning bolt).

Given it's a work of fiction, I would cut her some slack. It's the wackos who make outlandish claims for their alleged actual inventions that irk me.

Hey, in works of fiction, I cut all kinds of slack. Time travel, telepathy, whatever. I'm just wondering if this static motor is in fact theoretically possible.

 

[Brown]

Just curious: does the engine need 1.21 gigawatts...?

 

[BPSCG]

Just curious: does the engine need 1.21 gigawatts...?

Don't remember anything of that sort - the description was pretty general, didn't get into specifics of how the thing worked. Why?

 

[arcticpenguin]

Hey, in works of fiction, I cut all kinds of slack. Time travel, telepathy, whatever. I'm just wondering if this static motor is in fact theoretically possible.

I'm not about to re-read that brick of a book to remind myself of the details.

 

[MRC_Hans]

There is a charge in the atmosphere, increasing with altitude. Make a ten mile tower, and you might tap a fair amount of energy, not just during thunderstorms. Yes the idea, on a sci-fi level, is viable. In real life, don't hold your breath.

Hans

 

[jj]

I'm not about to re-read that brick of a book to remind myself of the details.

I wonder if some day there will be an edited version. If ever a book needed editing more than the last Harry Potter book, Atlas Shrugged is the book.

 

[jj]

There is a charge in the atmosphere, increasing with altitude. Make a ten mile tower, and you might tap a fair amount of energy, not just during thunderstorms. Yes the idea, on a sci-fi level, is viable. In real life, don't hold your breath.

Hans

Well, err..... I'll let somebody else get into the details.

As another work of fiction, half of an ace double was titled "The Lost Millenium".

Check it out if you can find it. Fantasy? Err, doh, yes. I am, however, surprised that it hasn't created a cult.

 

[Brown]

Don't remember anything of that sort - the description was pretty general, didn't get into specifics of how the thing worked. Why?

Well, the movie "Back to the Future" (and sequels) mention a device that needs 1.21 gigawatts in order to work... so a character contrives a way zap it with lightning.

 

[Michael Redman]

I wonder if some day there will be an edited version. If ever a book needed editing more than the last Harry Potter book, Atlas Shrugged is the book.

I used an effective form of editing. Whenever she went into one of her neverending diatribes, I skipped ahead until she got back to the story. It probably cut a third of the book out, without having lost a single significant word.

 

[arcticpenguin]

Melville could have used a good editor when he wrote Moby Dick. There's some excellent prose in there amongst the chaff.

 

[jj]

I used an effective form of editing. Whenever she went into one of her neverending diatribes, I skipped ahead until she got back to the story. It probably cut a third of the book out, without having lost a single significant word.

Yeah, but a good editor does that for you.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

You Know....Arthur C Clark ( 2001 ) , the originator of the geosynchronous orbit for satellites had an idea. Make a structure based on diamond fibers ( later changed to carbon fibers) use them as the basis of an elevator to space ( carry payloads more economically then chemically powered rockets) and generate electrical charge by coupling the top of the fibers as one end of an electrical generator and the earth as ..well the earth (ground). A carbon fiber (s)stretching from Vanatu to the geosynchronous would be analog to a long inductor traveling thru an magnetic field, the difference in the potentials at the top and bottom represent the energy that could be coupled. Like the thermal difference in a geothermal generator.

This would appear on it's face to be woo woo until you consider not only the source but the fact from a physics, electrical engineering and mechanical engineering stand point the idea is feasible.

The bugaboo was always the materials problem and since the advent of super hi tensile strength fibers and new ceramics ( for thermodynamic property's) it appears to have the engineering complexity of a suspension bridge from Gebralter to Afirca. ( I think I might have stolen that from him )

 

[BPSCG]

an elevator to space ( carry payloads more economically then chemically powered rockets) and generate electrical charge by coupling the top of the fibers as one end of an electrical generator and the earth as ..well the earth (ground). A carbon fiber (s)stretching from Vanatu to the geosynchronous would be analog to a long inductor traveling thru an magnetic field, the difference in the potentials at the top and bottom represent the energy that could be coupled. Like the thermal difference in a geothermal generator.

I can just hear the environmentalists now. Not to mention all the knuckledraggers who are already screaming that the power lines going through their back yards are giving everybody cancer.

 

[BPSCG]

There is a charge in the atmosphere, increasing with altitude. Make a ten mile tower, and you might tap a fair amount of energy, not just during thunderstorms. Yes the idea, on a sci-fi level, is viable. In real life, don't hold your breath.

Hans

That was basically what I wanted to know - thanks.

 

[Terry]

There is a charge in the atmosphere, increasing with altitude. Make a ten mile tower, and you might tap a fair amount of energy, not just during thunderstorms. Yes the idea, on a sci-fi level, is viable. In real life, don't hold your breath.

Hans

The natural potential gradient is quite large - I seem to remember it is of the order of tens of volts per metre. So you probably don't need a very tall tower (provided it's made of something other than metal). I think the problem is that the atmosphere is a very high impedance source, so the current available is very limited.

--Terry

 

[Diamond]

There was a proposal to use the Earth's magnetic field to bring down satellites without expensive rocket motors - you simply attach a long piece of conductor to the satellite.

The conductors whould be moving in the Earth's magnetic field and so would actually become straight. The motion of the satellite through the Earth's magnetic field would induce a current opposing the motion - causing drag to the satellite and down she goes.

 

[fishbob]

Many years ago I visited a fire watch tower, high up in the Colorado Rockies. There was a very large diameter copper cable running from a lightening rod on the roof, down to a very large copper grounding rod driven into the rocks. It was a clear, sunny day and I could hear a loud humming from the grounding cable. I often wondered if that was caused by static generated voltage / amperage running through that cable.

edit to add: It should be easy to measure, and I bet that whoever designed the tower had some data.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I'm not about to re-read that brick of a book to remind myself of the details.

I'm not either... I also have a vague recollection that there were other things in the book that seemed either physically impossible, or socially stupid (like having a sexual encounter in an alley).