Terry Shiavo - the last word

jmercer

Penultimate Amazing
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Jan 4, 2005
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Well, the autopsy results are in... and perhaps we can close this sorry chapter in a number of ways. Here's a link to the article in the NY Times Online ; you need to register to read it, but there's no charge for registering or afterwards.

Some excerpts from the article:

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, Published: June 15, 2005
LARGO, Fla. (AP) -- An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused.

...

Thogmartin also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.

She died from dehydration, Thogmartin said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

''Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not,'' Thogmartin told reporters.

He also said she was blind, because the ''vision centers of her brain were dead.''

...

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

''The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain,'' he said. ''This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons.''


The medical examiner also dismissed the previous testimony in a 1992 that her original collapse was due to an eating disorder, saying that there were no positive indications that was the case. (The main evidence for an eating disorder was a low potassium reading in her blood post-collapse and post-initial-treatment. The examiner stated that the treatements given to Shiavo post-collapse would also have lowered this reading.) This doesn't dismiss the possiblity that it was an eating disorder (she did lose over 100 lbs since high school), but it opened the door to other possiblities.

Schaivo's parents have been accusing her husband of abuse, but the examiner found no evidence of that, either. (And all reports of abuse made by the parents to state social workers were previously ruled unfounded after investigation.)

So it appears that Terry Schiavo could not have acknowledged her parents, or looked at them and seen them; nor could she have survived without a feeding tube; and in fact, was completely and irreversibly brain-dead all along. It further appears that in their tragic desperation to keep their daughter alive (against wishes expressed by her pre-collapse, apparently) led to massive legal efforts, a smear campaign against an innocent husband, and utter emotional agony on the parts of all parties involved... except, mercifully, Mrs. Shiavo, who was beyond all caring.

I just want to take a moment to thank and acknowledge some other persons who involved themselves in this tragedy - that would be Governer and President Bush. Their interventions in this case prolonged even further the agony of innocents - all for the purpose of furthering the religious/politicial doctrines of the fundamentalist conservatives, so they can count on their support in future elections. Well done, you two.

:i:
 
Glad you started a post on this. I also heard the results this evening. I think it's shameful that our president (note the use of the small "p" -- hey I didn't vote for the doofus), involved themselves in this very personal issue. What's especially sad though is that the parents still can't admit that she was brain dead. They are continuing to cling to their unfounded belief that she was alive and conscious and continuing in trying to demonize Mr. Schiavo.
 
March 19, 2005

"Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state."

"I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office," he said in a lengthy speech in which he quoted medical texts and standards. "She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli.""

Whoops, Dr. Frist!

- Timothy
 
Remind me to never go to him for a prostate exam. Who knows what would happen? :D
 
Timothy said:

"I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office"

Was there even an hour of video footage? I suppose they would have given more to him. But wouldn't it have occurred to him to see her in person, rather than rely on selected moments? How did he get a medical degree?

People who thinks that the video footage proved anything, should maybe think about the fact that while they had 15 years of potential footage, they only released about 5 minutes.
 
IIRC, I heard about one tape that was 5 hours and 55 minutes of Terry's body flopping around mindlessly and 5 minutes of it seeming to respond to stuff. Guess what portions made it to the news.
 
At the risk of offending both the profanity gods, and the poor taste police, I will quote the text of a t-shirt that was making the rounds back in March:


"**** Terry Schiavo, stop feeding Kirstie Alley!"


(Where **** is the imperitive verb-form obscenity of your choice.)


- Timothy
 
Washington Post story

There's a related article from the Washington Post today in which Bill Frist says he stands by the statements he made about Terri back in March. From the article:
I never made the diagnosis, I wouldn't even attempt to make a diagnosis from a videotape

Ooooh, so since he didn't make an official diagnosis, then he didn't make an official foul-up. Typical politician...
 
While I had hoped that this would put an end to all the nonsense, I had been unable to believe that it would go away.

Sure enough, Jeb Bush is now trying to get an investigation into Terri Schiavo's initial collapse and how her husband supposedly didn't get help for her quickly enough.

Why do they have to keep trying to make that poor man into a monster? Just to divert attention from their own failed attempts to keep her "alive"?
 
wolfgirl said:
While I had hoped that this would put an end to all the nonsense, I had been unable to believe that it would go away.

Sure enough, Jeb Bush is now trying to get an investigation into Terri Schiavo's initial collapse and how her husband supposedly didn't get help for her quickly enough.

Why do they have to keep trying to make that poor man into a monster? Just to divert attention from their own failed attempts to keep her "alive"?
Completely destroying the life of one man.. As if that's the worst the Bush Bros. have done. Not even a blip on the radar.
:(
 
LTC8K6 said:
The autopsy was just the beginning of the story for a lot of folks.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002756.htm

Read the page; she's a jerk. I listened to the autopsy report and read the transcript to check on what was said. Bulemia was NOT ruled out. The coroner said there was insufficient evidence to rule out OTHER causes as the court had apparently done due to expert testimony.

As far as Ms. Schiavo's brain weight goes, I will let medical practitioners cite what it means when someone's brain is half the weight it should be, and they're in a coma.

Clearly Malkin is bucking for a job on Fox News, or is simply a wannabe Anne Coulter.

LTC8K6 said:

Kerry's grades were recently released, and they were no better than Dubya's, despite what we were lead to believe. Kerry was supposedly the better student.

Oh, please. Let's not waste time comparing a rich lying coward and a rich flip-flopping combat veteran, shall we? Both of them suck, and frankly, I didn't want to see either one of them in office.
 
The point is that the autopsy is not the last word. It hasn't changed anyone's opinions.

There are many questions about the autopsy, and many different interpretations of it. Michelle's site was just a link to a few of them. There are lots more.

What did her brain look like many years ago? Was she blind then? When did her brain shrink? When did she lose her sight?

Lots of people still want answers, so the issue is not over by a long shot.

For me, I see no point in going on with the discussion.

To say that the autopsy solved anything is wishful thinking.

Please direct the below to the person who brought up the intelligence of our presidential candidates.

Oh, please. Let's not waste time comparing a rich lying coward and a rich flip-flopping combat veteran, shall we? Both of them suck, and frankly, I didn't want to see either one of them in office.
 
A few more minutes, and this thread will have been up for a week. No comment from Rouser2, yet.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The point is that the autopsy is not the last word. It hasn't changed anyone's opinions.

Well, I wouldn't say it didn't change anyone's opinions, only those who have, consciously or not, decided what they want to believe. I started a thread over in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology forum about an article that talks about the crowd of folks for whom nothing will change their mind about Terri Schiavo.

From the article:
As the press conference replayed, the television screen spelled out a question for cable viewers: "Does This Change Opinions?" Did the facts of a case that had so divided the country, so politicized the fate of one woman, actually make a difference?......This case was never solely about medicine. But the question on the TV screen illustrated the times we live in -- times when facts can exist in a separate universe from opinions. And a country in which science is not seen as a matter of black and white but increasingly a matter of red and blue.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The point is that the autopsy is not the last word. It hasn't changed anyone's opinions.

There are many questions about the autopsy, and many different interpretations of it. Michelle's site was just a link to a few of them. There are lots more.

What did her brain look like many years ago? Was she blind then? When did her brain shrink? When did she lose her sight?

Lots of people still want answers, so the issue is not over by a long shot.

For me, I see no point in going on with the discussion.

To say that the autopsy solved anything is wishful thinking.

Please direct the below to the person who brought up the intelligence of our presidential candidates.

First things first - I apologize about the candidate comparison thing. I missed the initial post on it, and thought you were making a comment. It seemed odd and a derail, and I should have realized something was amiss. :)

The autopsy - for me - solved the basic question: "Was Terry Shiavo brain-dead when they removed the feeding hose?" The answer to me is "Yes." And I agree - the issue isn't closed, although it absolutely should be. Sadly, some people will still pursue their fantasies regardless of how much pain it causes others... and to hell with the facts involved.

All those questions - when did it shrink, was she blind then, etc., are utterly irrelevant. What does it matter? It's her state at the time of removal of the hose that counts.

Someone I know just lost their father 2 weeks ago. The gentleman was elderly, and had gone into the hospital for a relatively minor reason. While there, he contracted a highly resistant strain of pneumonia... after short while, he had a heart attack from the strain on his body. This resulted in severe brain damage and placed him in a comatose state.

The doctors told the family "If there's no change in 72 hours, it's extremely unlikely he'll ever regain consciousness or recover."

The family waited for longer than the 72 hour period, and then reluctantly made the decision to let him go. A couple of days later, they removed the support apparatus, and a couple of days after that, he died.

His state prior to the heart attack was irrelevant. The circumstances leading up to the situation were irrelvant. (At least, as far as the decision itself is concerned. I'm sure those events have major relevancy to the family in other ways.) The only thing that was relevant to the decision to unplug him was his state at the time of the decision.

So, that's my basic point - the autopsy confirmed that Terry Shiavo was brain-dead when the feeding tube was removed, and that she had absolutely no chance of recovery - short of a bonafide miracle, that is.

So while the autopsy may or may not have opened doors to the discussion of "How did we arrive at this point? Was wrongdoing involved prior to this?", it completely answered the questions "Could she have recovered? Was she aware when they removed the tube?"
 
BronzeDog said:
Anyone want to guess when Rouser2 will show up?

You rang? Pro-death advocates react: Yippee!!! Now we can kill our aged parents!!!!

But the fact is, the conclusions of the Report do not reflect what the report actually says. And fact is, we all saw Terri's eyes follow the balloon. She could see. And the brain is 75% water. After dehyrdation, what do you think your brain would weigh? It's just more predictable propoganda from the forces of death exalted by a liberal, pro-death media. Terri was a disabled woman who was murdered by the courts. That's the long and short of it. Nuff said.
 

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