Jedi Knight
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- May 21, 2002
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Baker said:This is an old article but its very amusing these are good points every Arafat apologist should know and fill free to add your own!
Arafat is a terrorist thug and a thief who steals the resources of the bedoin arabs who are wrongly called "Palestinians". He is a terrorist with one goal in mind--the destruction of the State of Israel.
I am going to give this thread 5 stars because it deserves it. I don't know who the lamer was that gave this thread 1 star, probably some Jew-hating commie.
JK
I'm posting the complete list plus some that I have added read the article for the description of 1 through 10.
Tip #1 – Imagine that the Palestinians are fighting for a homeland that was taken away from them by the evil Jews.
Tip #2 – Never question the cause of Palestinian terror.
Tip #3 – Ignore the words of Palestinians.
Tip #4 – Imagine that Palestinians were, and are better off without Israel and the Israeli "occupation."
Tip #5 – Imagine that Israel controls the "occupied" territories for some bizarre, vague and sinister reason.
Tip #6 – Say that Arafat isn’t a terrorist.
Tip #7 – Imagine that Arafat has the interests of his own people in mind.
Tip #8 – Say that Arab terrorism has nothing to do with jealousy.
Tip #9 – Say it’s in Israel’s interest to pursue "peace".
Tip #10 – Shed yourself of any integrity you might have ever had.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=210
11. Claim any attempt by Israel to defend itself against terrorist is an act of aggression.
This means those women and children the Palestine terrorist use as body shields were just peacefully going about their business and then brutally gunned down by Israelis so don't mention the militia terrorist hiding behind them.
12. Don't mention the fact that Israel is the only Democratic Nation in the middle east.
There is no prospect at all that anything resembling a democratic state could be created in the territories.
So, keep pointing out that every Palestine will have a right to vote for Arafat try to avoid any mention about there only being one party in Palestine.
13. Claim Arafat can't control militant Palestinians.
Don't say anything about the missing Palestinians who vanished after challenge Arafat's rule and those arresting and, in some cases, executing them.
Show that he has also arrested members of terrorist groups but not that he has also routinely released them so they can continue to attack Israel.
Tip #1 – Imagine that the Palestinians are fighting for a homeland that was taken away from them by the evil Jews.
Tip #2 – Never question the cause of Palestinian terror.
Tip #3 – Ignore the words of Palestinians.
Tip #4 – Imagine that Palestinians were, and are better off without Israel and the Israeli "occupation."
Tip #5 – Imagine that Israel controls the "occupied" territories for some bizarre, vague and sinister reason.
Tip #6 – Say that Arafat isn’t a terrorist.
Tip #7 – Imagine that Arafat has the interests of his own people in mind.
Tip #8 – Say that Arab terrorism has nothing to do with jealousy.
Tip #9 – Say it’s in Israel’s interest to pursue "peace".
Tip #10 – Shed yourself of any integrity you might have ever had.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=210
11. Claim any attempt by Israel to defend itself against terrorist is an act of aggression.
This means those women and children the Palestine terrorist use as body shields were just peacefully going about their business and then brutally gunned down by Israelis so don't mention the militia terrorist hiding behind them.
12. Don't mention the fact that Israel is the only Democratic Nation in the middle east.
There is no prospect at all that anything resembling a democratic state could be created in the territories.
So, keep pointing out that every Palestine will have a right to vote for Arafat try to avoid any mention about there only being one party in Palestine.
13. Claim Arafat can't control militant Palestinians.
Don't say anything about the missing Palestinians who vanished after challenge Arafat's rule and those arresting and, in some cases, executing them.
Show that he has also arrested members of terrorist groups but not that he has also routinely released them so they can continue to attack Israel.
Captain_Snort
Muse
Baker
1 question
what is the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?
1 question
what is the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?
Captain_Snort
Muse
and state sponsored terrorism?
lets put it this way, you are coralled into ever smaller and smaller areas, stopped from going to your job buy a country that was founded on terrorism (I had an uncle die from isreali 'freedom fighters' bomb attacks)
if that happened to me and my basic freedoms taken away and I was pushed into camps, then see camps invaded by armour and bulldozed and many innocents killed, I would react by becoming a terrorist (though I am a coward an suicide bombing no)
another question, what do you think the mean by the term 'Israeli Occupied Territories?' who they occupying them from? who they displacing?
lets put it this way, you are coralled into ever smaller and smaller areas, stopped from going to your job buy a country that was founded on terrorism (I had an uncle die from isreali 'freedom fighters' bomb attacks)
if that happened to me and my basic freedoms taken away and I was pushed into camps, then see camps invaded by armour and bulldozed and many innocents killed, I would react by becoming a terrorist (though I am a coward an suicide bombing no)
another question, what do you think the mean by the term 'Israeli Occupied Territories?' who they occupying them from? who they displacing?
Captain_Snort said:
I don't know what you mean by being pushed into smaller and smaller area's it was Israel who gave up land for peace.
How are some people being stopped from going to their job?
I have explained this it isn't Israel that is pushing them into camps.
As sated in the article. "Sometimes land is confiscated when aggressive and terrorist states repeatedly attack their neighbors -- and lose."
I don't know who is supposedly being displaced.
Are you the real author of "Ten Tips on How to Be an Arafat Apologist"?
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Baker said:
Before the turn of last century, the population of the area was about 500,000. These people were trying to get their own country with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
The cause is a valid one. Are you referring to the reasons for why there is terror?
Which palestinians, and which words. There are many Palestinians out there, saying many different things. I thing I think most of them agree on is that they don't want to be a part of Israel.
I can just imagine what Americans would be like living under a military occupation. They would raise hell. In fact, they did raise and started a war of revolution about the same issue. Who were the 'Americans' before the revolution. They were English and European colonists.
There is no imagination to see the relentless campaign to annexe the West Bank and Gaza formally into part of greater Israel.
The jail wall being built to surround the Palestinians towns is being built.
The homes and farms that are bulldozed and stolen are still being bulldozed and stolen.
Arafat was a terrorist. There were also Israelis who were terrorists. The PM of Israel fits my category of a terrorist.
Arafat has renounced violence. How true that is, is open to debate.
He does. He may not actually know how to implement this aim, but he does have it.
If it does, so what. Just as the Isreali occupation has many reasons, so does the terrorism. This point really implies, since it ignores all other reasons for the terrorism, that there is only one reason for the terrorism.
It is in both sides interests, and the worlds.
Arafat is on the way out, despite his best efforts.
A car driving down a busy street is not using humans as shields. A terrorist living in a flat is not using humans as shields. Where are they supposed to live?
Being a democracy does not automatically give you some sort of magical power to always make collective correct choices.
As far as Democracy goes, rule of law is part of having a democracy. Rule of law only applies when it is politically expedient to do so. Otherwise, politics rules. For example, the Isreali Supreme Court can make rulings that illegal settlements should be removed, but these rulings are ignored.
Israel can't control it's own militants. The US has a whole sub-culture of people driving around without registered cars.
a_unique_person said:
Many moved there because of the Jew's who improved the economy.
You mean the destruction of Israel is a valid cause?
Did you even bother reading the article?
And what would it be like if the Israelis didn't have to live in fear of their children being blown to pieces on a bus?
Because the Palestinians' leaders have chosen the path of violence rather than negotiations, Israel still controls part of the disputed territories, and must use checkpoints, occasional curfews and other security measures to protect Israel's civilian population from terrorists. These steps certainly cause hardship and frustration, but they will not be necessary if the Palestinian Authority stops the terror.
Still using the same recycled arguments.
See my last 10 answers to this lie you keep imposing in every Israel Palestine thread.
Israel does not arbitrarily decide to demolish the homes of Palestinians. The army usually decides to take this drastic measure only after extreme provocation, and to insure the security of soldiers and civilians. In the case of Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip, in particular, they have been used as bomb factories, to provide cover for snipers, and to conceal tunnels used to smuggle weapons from Egypt. By demolishing homes, the objective is also to demonstrate that terrorists bring destruction not only to their victims, but to their own families and communities. The hope is that before engaging in terrorism, a Palestinian might think twice about the consequences.
authorized the Tanzim militia (an organ of Yasser Arafat's Fatah PLO faction) to fire upon Israeli civilians and soldiers with weapons supplied by the Palestinian Authority, and carry out bomb attacks against Israelis with explosives supplied by PA weapons depots;
financed terrorist activities and infrastructures. Documents seized during Operation Defensive Shield gave details of the funding provided to the Tanzim and the Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. Funds were paid directly to terrorists, as well as for the production and procurement of bombs and weapons
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0lom0
and state sponsored terrorism?
That's a fancy name the palestinians invented for israel's self-defense against their murderous suicide bombers.
The fact is, the current terror campaign started AFTER israel offered the palestinian a state. It wasn't a reaction against israel "state sponsored terrorism", but simply an attempt to get by force what israel would not give them by agreement, namely, its voluntary destruction.
The palestinians don't want peace if it means that israel exists, as they openly and repeatedly say.
lets put it this way, you are coralled into ever smaller and smaller areas, stopped from going to your job buy a country that was founded on terrorism (I had an uncle die from isreali 'freedom fighters' bomb attacks)
During all of its history, there were less israeli terrorists, who caused less deaths, than the palestinians had in most months during the latest so-called "uprising" against "israeli occupation"--whose main point is killing evil jewish babies who date to occupy buses in Tel Aviv. It should also be added that people like Stern and Shamir were, at the time, openly opposed by the jewish leadership, while the suicide bombers are glorified by the palestinian leadership.
If there is a nation "funded on terror", it's the palestinian nation. For example, the PA's television version of "Seasame Street" included a kid telling his friends that when he grows up he wants to be a suicide bomber who will kill jews, to their enthusiastic approval. Nice people. Of course, I'm sure THAT, too, is somehow the jews' fault.
If that happened to me and my basic freedoms taken away and I was pushed into camps,
WHAT basic freedoms? Nowhere in the arab world do arabs have freedom. The only arabs with any democratic freedom are the israeli arabs. It goes without saying that any palestinian state will simply be the usual dictatorical kleptocracy, whose citizens will have no freedoms at all.
As for being "pushed into camps", that's a crime against humanity... COMMITTED BY THE ARABS. There isn't one refugee camp in israel, whose arabs are citizens. The arab refugees of the 1948 war were, of course, OUTSIDE israel--in Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. It goes without saying that israel did not have any say in what those countries did to them. (In particular, the refugee camps in the west bank were set up by the Jordanians; those in Gaza, by the Egyptians.)
Israel--like India and Pakistan, Russia and Germany, and more or less every country in the world at the end of the 1940s--also had thousands of refugees within its border. Like those countries, it decided to resettle them and grant them citizenship. The arabs, deliberately and purposefully, were the ONLY nation in the world which did not resettle the refugees they had. It was they, not the israelies, who refused them citizenship and any help whatsoever, simply so they could use them as human ammo against israel.
So, yes, SOMEBODY pushed the palestinian in refugee camps... their arab "brothers".
then see camps invaded by armour and bulldozed and many innocents killed, I would react by becoming a terrorist (though I am a coward an suicide bombing no)
Sorry, but when a Hamas leader hides inside a camp, israel has every right to fight him. Using the "many innocents" as human shields is his moral fault, not israel's.
another question, what do you think the mean by the term 'Israeli Occupied Territories?' who they occupying them from?
who they displacing?
Jordan, who had them before. Incidentally, in the 19 years it had the territories, it didn't resettle or help one palestinian refugee. Odd, isn't it?
That's a fancy name the palestinians invented for israel's self-defense against their murderous suicide bombers.
The fact is, the current terror campaign started AFTER israel offered the palestinian a state. It wasn't a reaction against israel "state sponsored terrorism", but simply an attempt to get by force what israel would not give them by agreement, namely, its voluntary destruction.
The palestinians don't want peace if it means that israel exists, as they openly and repeatedly say.
lets put it this way, you are coralled into ever smaller and smaller areas, stopped from going to your job buy a country that was founded on terrorism (I had an uncle die from isreali 'freedom fighters' bomb attacks)
During all of its history, there were less israeli terrorists, who caused less deaths, than the palestinians had in most months during the latest so-called "uprising" against "israeli occupation"--whose main point is killing evil jewish babies who date to occupy buses in Tel Aviv. It should also be added that people like Stern and Shamir were, at the time, openly opposed by the jewish leadership, while the suicide bombers are glorified by the palestinian leadership.
If there is a nation "funded on terror", it's the palestinian nation. For example, the PA's television version of "Seasame Street" included a kid telling his friends that when he grows up he wants to be a suicide bomber who will kill jews, to their enthusiastic approval. Nice people. Of course, I'm sure THAT, too, is somehow the jews' fault.
If that happened to me and my basic freedoms taken away and I was pushed into camps,
WHAT basic freedoms? Nowhere in the arab world do arabs have freedom. The only arabs with any democratic freedom are the israeli arabs. It goes without saying that any palestinian state will simply be the usual dictatorical kleptocracy, whose citizens will have no freedoms at all.
As for being "pushed into camps", that's a crime against humanity... COMMITTED BY THE ARABS. There isn't one refugee camp in israel, whose arabs are citizens. The arab refugees of the 1948 war were, of course, OUTSIDE israel--in Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. It goes without saying that israel did not have any say in what those countries did to them. (In particular, the refugee camps in the west bank were set up by the Jordanians; those in Gaza, by the Egyptians.)
Israel--like India and Pakistan, Russia and Germany, and more or less every country in the world at the end of the 1940s--also had thousands of refugees within its border. Like those countries, it decided to resettle them and grant them citizenship. The arabs, deliberately and purposefully, were the ONLY nation in the world which did not resettle the refugees they had. It was they, not the israelies, who refused them citizenship and any help whatsoever, simply so they could use them as human ammo against israel.
So, yes, SOMEBODY pushed the palestinian in refugee camps... their arab "brothers".
then see camps invaded by armour and bulldozed and many innocents killed, I would react by becoming a terrorist (though I am a coward an suicide bombing no)
Sorry, but when a Hamas leader hides inside a camp, israel has every right to fight him. Using the "many innocents" as human shields is his moral fault, not israel's.
another question, what do you think the mean by the term 'Israeli Occupied Territories?' who they occupying them from?
who they displacing?
Jordan, who had them before. Incidentally, in the 19 years it had the territories, it didn't resettle or help one palestinian refugee. Odd, isn't it?
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Baker said:
Many Jews came from western countries, that had higher standards of education, compared to the Arabs, many of whom had lived under the decaying Ottoman Empire.
There was also much support from overseas for the creation of Israel. Many Jews donate money to the cause of Israel still.
For a period of time, between Oslo and the second Intifada, there was a growing interdependence between Israel and Palestine. Sharon made sure that wouldn not continue.
No more or less than the destruction of Palestine.
It is a typical one sided diatribe. Some propaganda sites have something to offer in the way of unexpected facts or points of view, that, even if they are presented on a propaganda site, are still worth knowing.
This article, however, is a recycling of all the known propaganda, without adding anything new, while taking a long winded and tedious approach to repeating it.
The fear of terrorism appears to be the only weapon Palestine has. It is all they can do to get the odd combatant into Israel proper. I daresay, if they had tanks, nukes, jets and helicopters, they would use those instead.
The alternative to terrorism, of course, is negotiation. Oslo showed that it can work to an extent, but that Israel would also never stop building settlements. And they haven't. The second intifada can be traced back to Sharons visit to the Temple Mount.
Palestine already had problems, due to Arafats poor governance. The equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre is terrorism in my book.
Can the PA stop the terror. Can the US make people register their vehicles, or stop killing each other in their own country?
A good comparison is the IRA. That organisation has splinter groups of splinter groups, each with their own agenda. All are called the 'IRA' to an extent, all profess to wanting a free Northern Ireland. The 'UDF' has it's own share of homicidal maniacs. The British, in the end, realised their was no alternative to sitting down and talking, and copping the occaisonal terrorism that happened.
Despite the huge improvement in violence in that country, there is still enourmous ill will between the two sides. It will be there for who knows how many decades to come. Expect the same between Israel and Palestine. The demand that terrorism stops is ludicrous, not because it should not happen, but because it has a momentum of it's own, and will not stop in the near future, no matter what anyone does.
In what way is this a lie.
Three facts are indisputable.
1. Continued military occupation
2. The fence.
3. The settlements.
Until these go, I will keep stating that. All three are supported directly by the state of israel, all three can be acted on much more easily than the ending of terrorism.
The army can be ordered out.
With the army out, the settlements will have to go.
The construction of the fence can be halted, especially the part that is planned for the Jordan border, and the incursions into Palestine to protect settlements.
The demolition of houses is something that has been going on for many years, it is not a recent response to terrorism. It has been a part of the theft of land. Always there is a pretext, a house has been built 'illegally' (although it is impossible for a Palestinian to get a building permit), a road is to be built, a park is going here or there. A settlement needs security, then expands onto the cleared area. Farmland is needed for housing.
I am sure Skeptic, who has told us he has driven bulldozers, could fill us in on a few anecdotes from his time in the IDF.
Splinter groups keep breaking out of Fatah. Arafat appears to have really tried to be a Nelson Mandela, but failed. He was not Nelson, and he was not in Jail, (The Israelis could have jailed or killed him at any stage in the past 20 years, I would say. They are too clever for that. He is in prison, but under virtual house arrest. He is not allowed to move without their permission. That way, they can have their cake and eat it too.)
Yes, lets ignore the Arab dictatorship governments who founded the POL to destroy Israel. [/B][/QUOTE]
I am sure it is called the PLO.
The state of Israel was created out of the destruction of the hopes of the resident arabs for the creation of a state of Palestine.
What they were left with, the West Bank and Gaza, according to the father of Israel, David Ben-Gurion, should have been handed back. He never thought the Palestinians people should be left without any state.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Skeptic said:
What the Palestinians were offered did not amount to a state, but a 'Bantustan'. That is, effectively a state within greater Israel, with communication between the sections controlled by Israel, and with strategically located settlements still within Palestine.
I would call the bulldozing of farmland terrorism. It deprives people of their livelihood.
The presence of an army is terrorism. Children growing up under a military is a violation of their rights to freedom.
The control of their culture. For example, Israel has made massive efforts at archeological research, but controls the efforts of Palestinians to do the same, in their own country.
As the saying goes, 'He who controls the past, controls the future'.
found this
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/timeline/text/time5.html
I have seen many pro-Israeli sites carrying this story only. Perhaps a splinter group did produce such a show. It does not appear to have been a newsworthy item, as it may have been a beatup.
They do have the right to live in their homes, build their own homes, move without having to produce identity papers, etc. Not as free as many countries, more free than life under Israeli occupation
The Palestinian refugees are no more Egyptians than they are Israeli. Their race is arab, but arabs is a term for a racial group, not the tribes or nations that they lived under.
Once again, the arabs are a race. They see themselves as consisting of many different tribes, or nations.
As for Russian and refugees, let's not go there.
Hamas are people too, they have to live somewhere. Perhaps you expect them to live in a special terrorist camp.
Jordan was another artifact of the colonial age. Jordan, as such, was a geographic area, not a national area.
a_unique_person said:
That's right Israel gave them the land in the Oslo treaty just to take it away from them?
It shows the myths and propaganda already out there and many that you have tried to use I wouldn't be surprised if you were the author.
It states the facts and shallow excuses often used by the Palestine apologist.
More significantly, the "Temple Mount visit" myth was debunked in April 2001 by the Mitchell Committee (officially known as the Sharm el-Sheikh Fact-Finding Committee). This committee, composed of American and European leaders and headed by former US Senator George Mitchell, extensively investigated the cause of the violence which began in September 2000 and rejected the Palestinian claim regarding the Temple Mount visit. It had become clear that the true roots of the current situation could be found in the Palestinian rejection of the concept of a peacefully negotiated resolution of disputes.
I fail to see any comparison here you are comparing bombings to people not register their vehicles?
And each point you made have been debunked then you try the same propaganda in a new thread.
A growing number of Israelis have come to the conclusion that the best solution to the conflict with the Palestinians is separation. They propose that a fence or wall be built to demarcate a new border between Israel and the Palestinians. Even Israelis who are not enthusiastic about the establishment of a Palestinian state argue the fence is needed to reduce the number of terror attacks. The head of the Shin Bet, Avi Dichter, for example, has said that a physical barrier can be a deterrent and cites the example of the fence that was built to separate Israel from the Gaza Strip
The hope is that before engaging in terrorism, a Palestinian might think twice about the consequences. The IDF has, in fact, found the demolition of homes to be an effective deterrent, and that the policy has led fathers to turn in their sons before the youths participate in terrorist attacks that would lead to the destruction of the family's home.44a
And that's why Jordan was created to give them a homeland but lets not facts get in the way of good propaganda.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Baker said:
That's right Israel gave them the land in the Oslo treaty just to take it away from them?
What did they give them? As I already said, a cut up state, one that had 'foreign' areas within it, with the IDF contained within. It was a 'state' that was never going to be viable, as it would have contained many 'settlements' within it's borders still
You have got to be joking.
It sets up strawman after strawman and knocks it down.
You are correct in that it was not the only reason for the second intifada.
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c411.htm
also a factor was Arafat's incompetence. However, why anyone would yell out fire in a crowded theatre is beyond me, unless they wanted panic that followed.
It was these people who harboured and nurtured Timothy McVie.
Except that everwhere it is built, it is Palestinian land that is taken. Many of the houses being destroyed are for the construction of the fence. And Sharon has plans to make the fence not just a separation, but an encirclement. That is, it will completely surround the Palestinians. The only rationale for this is that the Israeli plans for Palestine include
The hope is that before engaging in terrorism, a Palestinian might think twice about the consequences. The IDF has, in fact, found the demolition of homes to be an effective deterrent, and that the policy has led fathers to turn in their sons before the youths participate in terrorist attacks that would lead to the destruction of the family's home.44a
[/quote]
And bulldozing is just part of removing, piece by piece, the remnants of the state of Palestine. The aim being to create a series of ghettoes.
Jordan is not Palestine. It's like asking why the Americans didn't just move to Canada rather than start a war of independence.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Baker said:
How many times do I have to say it, the plan now appears to be extended to not just a dividing fence, but one that completely encircles the West Bank.
Baker said:
14. Remember no peace plan is ever enough keep demanding more and more land for peace.
In addition, don’t mention that all of Israel is considered occupied territory.
15. Claim Prime minister Mahmoud Abbas is in complete control.
Not Arafat is secretly controlling everything behind the scenes including continuing terrorist attacks against Israel.