TAM IV: A Report From The Fringe.

[Roadtoad]

Belatedly, here's my report on TAM IV.

Peggy and I left Sacramento on Wednesday. By Thursday morning, I wasn't feeling all that hot, and Peggy's asthma had kicked in. As much as I was looking forward to attending, I wasn't up to 100%, A-1, Superfine status. This would not work out well for the meeting.

We got into LV around noon, finally managed to find our hotel, and arrived early enough to be something of a pest to Jeff and Linda, both of whom were running at full tilt keeping up with everything. If you ever allow yourself to think a gig with JREF might be an easy income, think again. Everyone on the staff was putting in a hard day to make sure this event came off without a hitch. Personally, I think they succeeded beyond everyone's wildest dreams, but then again, I've little evidence to present. Your mileage will vary...

Peggy and I were to be guests of Hutch, and since Hutch was out working as the shuttle driver for so many who were attending, (and I'm a little irked that he didn't get mention for this at the end of TAM), we sat down and kicked back and met up with a few of our fellow posters.

Perhaps if I were better at my people skills, we'd have had a better chance at this. I'm not, but I have to tell you, it was great meeting people like Claus, (whom I've admired for some time), Suezoled, Chaos, Fowlsound, Rikzilla, MLynn, and Lost Angeles. To say that they're every bit as incredible in person as they are on the board is something of an understatement. It's humbling when you finally meet someone face to face that has managed to, by their words, uplift and energize you, even when you find you disagree with them.

A key example was Joshua Korosi, who seemed to be just about everywhere, and on more than one occasion, was in the right place at the right time. Yes, he was using a cane, but he managed to be everywhere he needed to be, providing service to everyone who needed it. He's one compassionate man, and one of my bigger regrets is I didn't get to sit down and talk to him more. (Not that I had anything all that interesting to say, but still...)

Another example was Loon, whose huge heart was only matched by his intellect. I had the opportunity to sit next to him for part of the meeting, and there were things he caught that I missed that helped me a great deal. We had more of a chance to talk, but not enough, as it turned out.

Beleth was also sitting next to me through part of the meeting. I had little if any chance to talk to him, which bothered me more than most, since I've read so much of what he had to say on this board that actually helped me connect a lot of the dots that seemed out of reach to me.

Robert Lancaster, of course, I did get to spend some time with, as well as RandFan. Robert, as you no doubt gathered from his presentation on Sunday, allows no slop in his thinking. This is one man who walked as he talked it. It requires some heavy duty intellect to do what he did, bringing out the truth of that (Rule 8), Kaz, yet at the same time, he was so damned kind to everyone, including Peggy, (more on that in a moment or two), that you couldn't help but like him. Again, the biggest regret is that you don't get enough time to talk to your fellow attendees.

The same could be said about RandFan, who, like me, was there on a scholarship, and primarily due to the generosity of Hutch. His interests are incredibly broad, and it was interesting to hear from someone who came out of the Mormon Church, (a lot of Peggy's and my families are still members), and to hear how he figured his way out from there.

At one point, we got a chance to sit down and talk with Terry and Steve, (and I later realized that Steve had done some work for a former employer of mine). There isn't anything specific I can point to on that conversation, but I can say that here were two people I'd welcome to my home any day of the week, and with pleasure. I wish I either lived further south, or they lived more to the north, because I could wish I could continue some conversations that started with them, but wasn't able to finish. (Maybe when we start hauling equipment up from Niland, again, we'll get the chance, as I'm supposed to be coming up through their neck of the woods.)

The only downside is that Terry was wearing a pink T-shirt which was the very color Peggy likes. At one point, I told him, "You know, I might just have to mug you for that shirt." Terry stepped out, and brought Peggy a T-shirt from Palm Springs, probably out of a sense of self-preservation. (I WAS KIDDING, TERRY!!!)

More to follow...

 

[kittynh]

cool. I was really ill. Thankfully Las Vegas physicians seem to have grasped the concept you are there to enjoy yourself, and hand out drugs like no other physicians I have ever known! I totally lost my voice and the MD just handed me some steroids and said, "Take these and your voice will be back in a few hours...pretty much. Just don't ask your physician at home for these, it's not really a good idea to take steriods unless you really NEED to talk."

Certainly, TAM4 was a need to talk!

However, I'm very afraid that all the medications I was taking (thank Ed for Walgreens being across the street). made me a little flakey at TAM. I have this horror I just walked around hugging people and saying, "I LOVE YOU MAN!"

I'm sorry for those I frightened.

 

[Imrational]

Damn, I didn't get hugged!

 

[Zep]

I had lunch with Roadtoad and Peggy. It was fine!

 

[CFLarsen]

made me a little flakey at TAM.

I didn't notice any change.

I have this horror I just walked around hugging people and saying, "I LOVE YOU MAN!"

Well, you did that, too.

 

[Beleth]

Yeah, RT, I kept sitting there thinking, "man, I really want to talk to RoadToad, but not when the speaker's speaking"... and then the day was over!

Did Peggy have a good time? I remember talking to you and her a little bit in the registration area on Thursday. She seemed a bit... uncomfortable.

 

[kittynh]

see, if I had met Peggy she would have had a big hug and been told I love her. I love her because she takes good care of our Road Warrior!!!

 

[Zep]

I spoke with Peggy for a while! She is a lovely and genuine lady, RT. I think the reason she was a bit standoffish was that she may have been a bit nervous around us other skeptics. Or perhaps just in a crowd. Or just the Vegas atmosphere in general, which can be a bit overbearing if you aren't ready for it.

However we had a delightful conversation (about you, RT!) as the last day was winding up, and she seemed much more relaxed and happier with the surroundings and people.

 

[Hamradioguy]

I have this horror I just walked around hugging people and saying, "I LOVE YOU MAN!"
.

Uh, Oh. I KNEW I should have brushed my teeth and changed my shirt- never got that hug. Maybe at TAM5?

 

[delphi_ote]

For the record, Beleth, Roadtoad, and Zep are all very cool in person.

 

[Roadtoad]

Hey, I finally get the computer back...

So, out of all of this, Peggy and I introduce ourselves to James Randi.

The first thing I noticed is that, damn, HE'S SHORT! I mean, he's only a couple of inches taller than my wife.

The second thing I notice is that he's a flirt. He's cracking jokes with my wife, and treating her like the gem she is. Good thing I'm married to her, I think. (Yeah, right.) Still, he's cracking joke after joke, and he's got us smiling and feeling somewhat at ease. At one point, he tells us this story...

"I was in Finland for a conference, and this man comes running up to me, saying, 'Mr. Randi, I just wanted to tell you that I'm a skeptic, too!' And I said to him, 'I doubt it...'"

THAT is one of the things you can't help but love about the guy. Very quick, very clear and concise, in other words, a clear display of genuine wit. (Or as Dorothy Parker would have noted, anything else is simply verbal gymnastics.) He was generous with his time, and friendly to a fault. And, yes, he knew Peggy is a Christian. The man was clearly not out to offend, and while he's not one to suffer fools, he's definitely willing to listen to others. He charmed my wife no end.

As I said, there's more to this. I should have known better. James Randi is at the forefront of the organization, he is not the organization.

At the same time, we got a chance to catch up with Hal Bidlack. I told him, "I wish like hell you'd get back on the board. We sure miss you."

Hal, ever gracious, said simply, "I've become something of a lightning rod, and it's counter to what we wanted the board to become. I just felt it was time to step away.

"Of course, I did it without posting an entire thread about how I was leaving."

Gee, I thought, he left with class. How would the board ever survive? I knew the answer, of course, and I decided that it wouldn't be classy if I said it out loud how I meant it.

Other folks I met were Kramer, who, as his posts in the Challenge section indicate, is also not someone who will suffer a fool, certainly not for any longer than is necessary. (Some of the more recent applications should bear that out.) In talking with him, particularly about a recent thread on this, Kramer reminded me that the relationship is necessarily adversarial. "We don't care about hearing how you do it. Just do it," he explained. "We ask people to read the instructions first, then make an application. That's the applicant's responsibility." Hard to argue with him.

Contrary to what a certain individual thought, Kramer is, in fact, one of the most personable people I've ever met, one of the kindest. That he doesn't put up with a lot of BS from applicants should indicate this: JREF isn't into self-deception, and it's cruel to permit it in others. Hence, the reason for insisting that people perform double-blind tests on their own before they make an application to JREF for the Million. It's acceptance of your own responsibilities. If you can't do that, THEN DON'T APPLY FOR THE PRIZE!

Not long after this, Jeff Wagg caught up with us. Hutch had gotten back, and he was waiting to help us get checked into our room.

Forget what you think you might know about Hutch. The reality is far better. He's a genuine Southern Gentleman, an honest man with a huge heart. I keep thinking that it was in Richmond, VA, where I had the misfortune to be in a Boy Scout Troop with a "friend" of my Dad's, another "gentleman" who took advantage of that and proceeded to make my life miserable.

That's not Hutch. Hutch is what you want your sons to grow up to become: an honest, forthright man, who will do what you expect grown men do to do. He's an asset to the organization, and he's definitely an asset to anyone who knows him. He's working with kids, and I can't help but think they're getting a great example of what we expect our adults to be in our nation. I keep thinking it might be nice to move to Alabama, if there's a house available next door.

He got Peggy and I, as well as RandFan and his family, checked into our rooms, even asking if we needed any further help. Like what? The man just got us rooms in one of the most expensive places I've ever stayed in, and he's asking to carry our bags or something? I was floored. I kept thinking this was a huge set of footprints I found myself wanting to follow. If this was what it took to be a Skeptic, then I had a challenge before me which would take the rest of my life to fulfill.

(Kurious Kathy, take note: This is called a Servant's Heart. This is called generosity. This is called kindness. This is an example we want to follow, regardless of what we choose to believe.)

I got to spend a few minutes talking with Claus and Chaos, but the one thing which surprised me was Claus asking if we were going out for Thai with the others. "I can't afford it," I told him. "We're flat damn busted, Dude. We'd love to, since I've never had Thai, but it's out of our price range for this trip."

So who steps in? Suezoled, who, even when I try to decline, tells me it's her choice, and she's wanting us there, and that settles it.

Yeah, Atheists and Agnostics are real bastards. Suuuuuure they are. (One of many lies that would collapse over that weekend.)

I figured if this is what we could expect from this weekend, we were in for one hell of a time. I was glad I came, at that point. Hopefully, things would continue on that note. With Fowlsound introducing us to one HKB, (I'll let him explain), it looked like that would be the case.

More to come later. (I keep reminding myself that my kids will be moving out soon, and I'll have my computer to myself. Yeah, right...)

 

[RSLancastr]

It requires some heavy duty intellect to do what he did, bringing out the truth of that (Rule 8), Kaz

Gotta disagree with you there, 'Toad. There wasn't a lot of intellect involved, mostly a lot of tenacity. And I'm not saying that out of misplaced modesty, but to make it clear that what I did wasn't rocket science - nowhere near - and anyone with determination could have done the same.

yet at the same time, he was so damned kind to everyone, including Peggy, (more on that in a moment or two), that you couldn't help but like him.

Hey, who wouldn't be kind to Peggy?

Again, the biggest regret is that you don't get enough time to talk to your fellow attendees.

Definitely, sir. Next year I'll be less stressed out, and hope to do a lot more socializing with my fellow forumites.

 

[RandFan]

Hey, who wouldn't be kind to Peggy?

My hats off to Peggy. She was very polite sitting there listening to us discuss religion. She made some points and did so with dignified commitment for her belief. It is folks like her, and there are many like her, that remind me that I want to be respectful of people of faith.

Thanks so much for your time Roadtoad,

I have to agree Hutch is such a decent guy.

 

[vbloke]

The Thai food was fantastic, the company was great, the conversation interesting and the whole shebang was fun. Thanks for the lift back to the Stardust too, Roadtoad - you're a really nice guy too! Both you and Peggy are honest and genuine people - it was fantastic to meet you.

 

[Hutch]

Forget what you think you might know about Hutch. The reality is far better. He's a genuine Southern Gentleman, an honest man with a huge heart. I keep thinking that it was in Richmond, VA, where I had the misfortune to be in a Boy Scout Troop with a "friend" of my Dad's, another "gentleman" who took advantage of that and proceeded to make my life miserable.

That's not Hutch. Hutch is what you want your sons to grow up to become: an honest, forthright man, who will do what you expect grown men do to do. He's an asset to the organization, and he's definitely an asset to anyone who knows him. He's working with kids, and I can't help but think they're getting a great example of what we expect our adults to be in our nation. I keep thinking it might be nice to move to Alabama, if there's a house available next door.

He got Peggy and I, as well as RandFan and his family, checked into our rooms, even asking if we needed any further help. Like what? The man just got us rooms in one of the most expensive places I've ever stayed in, and he's asking to carry our bags or something? I was floored. I kept thinking this was a huge set of footprints I found myself wanting to follow. If this was what it took to be a Skeptic, then I had a challenge before me which would take the rest of my life to fulfill.

(Kurious Kathy, take note: This is called a Servant's Heart. This is called generosity. This is called kindness. This is an example we want to follow, regardless of what we choose to believe.)

Roadtoad, I am more than flattered, I am overwhelmed. I never did get the chance to take you and Peggy to Lunch/Dinner as I had hoped, an oversight I intend to correct next year.

And one minor correction; I may be a Southern Gentleman by location, but I'm a Damn Yankee by birth and inclination...

And there are some houses nearby that are available...

 

[Roadtoad]

Now, where were we?

There was the first session, where Hal got up and spoke for a bit, as well as a few opening remarks by JR himself. (Odd, he didn't look sick at all. Hell, I wish I looked that good, myself.) Following that, everyone had a chance to get together for a bit to eat and drink.

Of course, by then, we'd just had enough time to make a couple of introductions, and we were off for Thai food with some of our fellow board members. Vbloke was in a shirt I might have mugged him for, except that he was surrounded by a significant portion of the British Contingent, and if I did, it was unlikely that (a.) I would have gotten the shirt, and (b.) I would have had a chance to enjoy Newcastle Ale with them. (Hospitals are notoriously tight-@$$ed about beer in the patients' rooms.)

We had a great time with everyone. There's no other way to describe it. If the table were smaller, maybe we could have talked some with Claus, but it was a great night. We drove back to the hotel with Vbloke, Girl6, and Lost Angeles, (I think), and I wound up hanging out with WonderfulWorld, Fowlsound, and a certain HKB. (Note to self: Don't even think of questioning the manhood of a man who wears kilts...

(...in Minnesota...

(...in Winter.)

(Which kills me, because I thought I had gotten his contact info, and I didn't. Damn it...)

I was up early the next morning. Peggy was not doing well; her asthma had kicked in heavily overnight, and the fact that LV is sitting in a deep bowl, where all the smog practically congeals did not help matters. Still, down to breakfast, and the first full day of TAM.

I'd had a great time meeting so many people, it was almost anticlimactic to get started with the business at hand. Still, we headed in, I parked myself at a table, and before long, we heard from Christopher Hitchens.

I enjoy reading his articles. As a speaker, Hitchens is about as exciting as [William F. Buckley]. What I mean to say is, if you take pleasure in painfully erudite discourse on matters of public enquiry, then, I should say, one might truly find treasures within the pulchritudinous verbage of Mr. Hitchens, who dispenses his literate wisdom upon the pages of Vanity Fair. Indeed, one might take heart in the wisdom dispensed in his latest tome, which is an examination of the life of Thomas Jefferson. [/William F. Buckley]

One thing I got from Hitchens was his objection to the trivialization of his life and accomplishments, from both the political left and right. It was interesting to note, for example, that Jefferson opposed mandatory tithes to the Church of England, (i.e., the Episcopal Church.) He noted that there had been during Jefferson's lifetime requirements that for political office, in Massachussets, no Catholic could serve, while in Delaware, one had to profess a "trinitarian" belief, while South Carolina mandated that one had to be a Protestant.

Further, Jefferson opposed a standing army, insisting that it be reauthorized every year. Something to think about as Congressman Charles Wrangell insists on the reinstitution of the draft.

Hitchens made one thing clear, and on this point, we're in complete agreement: Only a secular state can preserve religious liberty, because it takes no stand for any religion. Without a dog in the fight, the state can protect the rights of everyone. (Not that it has in the past, but the intent is there.) From another point, Hitchens made it clear that Islam is basically an imperialistic movement, while Intelligent Design is an attempt to reintroduce to America a form of Deistic Rule, both of which are not only against the Constitution, but antithetical to what the Founding Fathers intended.

In spite of his praise for Jefferson, Hitchens is honest about Jefferson's failure to end "the foul legacy of Slavery." Ultimately, I'm looking forward to reading his book, though at the time, I couldn't afford it. (Or much of anything, for that matter.)

Still, I couldn't blame him for one dig he took at the Bush Administration: He suggested that Churches which are receiving Federal money should teach "both sides" of the Evolutionary debate. I'm sure there's other issues where the Church ought to teach both sides, so this could, in fact, cut a wide swath.

More later.

 

[Roadtoad]

Sooner or later, I'll get it all done...

Michael Shermer, as has been noted, read from his book(let). While some were irritated by this, thinking that he was simply phoning it in, the reality is it wasn't so much a presentation as a demonstration.

What Shermer was trying to do was to show how easy it was to counter many of the fundamentalist arguments against atheism/agnosticism. While the average Fundamentalist has Chick Tracts and a number of other resources, the Atheist/Agnostic has little. He simply was showing the audience that, yes, you can stand up for what you believe, there are resources out there for you. It's a question of whether or not you'll use it.

As to what he actually said, you can go with my imperfect review, or you can read what Shermer actually read to the audience. The bottom line: Man has no divine "purpose," save to reproduce and populate the Earth. We're natural dualists, believing innately that once the body dies, the spirit continues.

Most skeptics are monists: Once you're body's gone, so are you. Make the best of the time you have. Cooperation helps to ensure man will go on.

After a brief break, we heard from Dr. Murray Gell-Mann, who served as an advisor on scientific affairs through several administrations. Additionally, he's earned the Nobel Prize for Physics. (Funny, when you meet the man, he's more like that elderly neighbor of yours who's ready to loan you the hedge clippers, and keeps bringing treats over for the kids and the dog. Just one of the kindest and most generous people I've met.)

Under the Nixon Administration, he put together the PESAT, which led to the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency. He provided counsel regarding the "Star Wars" Anti-Ballistic Missle System.

It was interesting to note that the discussions regarding Global Warming are not new. According to Dr. Gell-Mann, he spoke with John Erlichman about it as far back as 1970. Erlichman was actually quite helpful in Dr. Gell-Mann's work with the Nixon White House, which was actually something of a surprise. (You have to wonder where the environmentalists get most of their political views on a lot of this. Seems Nixon did more than most to try and fix this early.)

Another point was that NASA exaggerated the benefits of the space shuttle system that was actually chosen, that apparently, there were other systems being considered. This was part of a long weight-lifting contest with the Russians that began long before the Sputnik program.

There was one point of painful realpolitik: "Whatever gets the greatest amount of funding is the only project you care about. Other projects only serve as a source of reserve funding." (Think $900 hammers, and $1,200 toilet seats.)

More later. Time to get on the road.

 

[Roadtoad]

To continue:

At meetings at the White House, Dr. Gell-Mann would occasionally sit in Spiro Agnew's chair. (I was left asking "Why!?!?" Geez, I never figured he was a masochist.) He pointed out that he saw his goal as being one of reassuring people that they had some control over the future they were heading into. He also pointed out that Institutions can evolve as well as organisms, ultimately moving to fulfill new functions. Over the course of his service to the nation, he saw that happen time and again.

Another point: Getting into Groupthink, Gell-Mann pointed out that Nixon wanted people to speak out when they agreed with him, but he insisted that they keep quiet when they disagreed. Interestingly, E. Howard Hunt made the same point in his book, Undercover. He also chose to avoid serving on committees with Dr. Edward Teller. I'm reminded by that last point that Teller wanted to pop the cork on a nuke on the Hale-Bopp comet, which prompted one scientist to remark that if you had problem, Eddie had a bomb. (I wondered if Dr. Gell-Mann was the one who made that remark. I wanted to thank him if he had, but it seemed rude to ask.)

Research, he noted, is often a good idea, since you don't often know when or if you'll need it. It's interesting that he made this remark as he noted that George H. W. Bush restored the science advisory committee that Reagan shut down. Not that this was necessarily a big step forward: VP Dan Quayle opposed any improvements in environmental policy. Ultimately, he wound up during the Clinton years with the Office of Technology Assessment, noting that both Clinton and Gore were very responsive to environmental concerns. Kyoto was intended to be a first step, and both Clinton and Gore understood that further refinements were needed.

At the moment, something can be done about such problems as Global Warming, but it won't be likely once the right wing talk show hosts realize there's a problem.

One of the things going on today, according to Dr. Gell-Mann is that scientific studies are ordered up to support decisions that have already been made. It sounds odd to me, mainly because it's dishonest. It's the cart before the horse, but I've yet to see anyone publicly challenge this in the media.

Presently, Dr. Gell-Mann is serving with the Office of Scientific and Technological Policy. One can hope the folks in the White House are listening.

Probably not...

Peggy and I enjoyed a quiet lunch, in spite of the crowd in the dining area. We talked a bit about what I'd been listening to, and though she disagreed with someone like Michael Shermer, she understood his point of view. I suspected she might have enjoyed meeting him, but at that point, she was still on the edge about it.

It was the Amazing One's turn to speak after lunch. We were introduced to L'affaire Benveniste, perhaps one of the more Amazing moments in Mr. Randi's life. Frankly, I was surprised to hear about this, especially since I wouldn't have thought a "non-scientist" would be able to do much in such a case, but as I learned, it helps to look outside the box, as it were. (And in this case, quite close to literally...)

Jacques Benveniste was a researcher in France, dealing primarily in Homeopathy. As it happened, he was preparing to make some announcement of a breakthrough. Investigating Benveniste were Walter Stewart of the NIH, and John Maddox of Nature Magazine. (If my spelling is incorrect here, I'm hoping someone will make note and tell me.) He told Randi and compatriots that he would not countenance any challenge to his lab staff's competence.

("Oh, really?" I'm thinking was probably the first thing going through certain minds at that moment.)

The question was simply: How did Benveniste come to the conclusion that homeopathy worked? He'd won awards, and in France, one does not question academics, nor do you investigate them.

This explained why things were so damned screwy. At one point, the head lab tech was doing a cell count. She then took the slide out of the microscope, then reinserted it, and redid the count. The data was being manipulated to fit results, rather than the way it ought to be done: Data is gathered and the information determines the results.

Of course, the professionals were beside themselves over this. It was then that the second test was set up: Information was relabeled, controls were established, videotape cameras were set up, and everything documented.

The informational key to interpreting the data was then sealed in an envelope. It was here that Randi's genius emerged. For one thing, the envelope was placed with tape on the ceiling. It it was tampered with, Randi, Stewart, and Maddox would know.

The next morning, they saw that it had been moved. Someone had tried to get a look at the contents.

No such luck: Randi had wrapped everthing in aluminum foil.

The end result? With Benveniste having called in the media for a major announcement, the envelope was opened, and it revealed that the data didn't jibe. Benveniste's "findings" were about as reliable as a Yugo. It was his head lab assistant who did all the work, while he did nothing towards establishing double-blind controls. For that, Benveniste won two "Ig-nobel" Awards for Stupidity in Science.

It's a cautionary tale: You have to do the work, and you have to rely on people who will do the work. I'm left wondering just how many people have lost their lives to Benveniste's stupidity.

More later.

 

[bug_girl]

AWESOME, RT!Thanks so much for describing this in detail for those of us less literary who are reduced to telling our husbands things like: "Well, it was really cool. And we got food. "

 

[kookbreaker]

I obviously don't make much of an impression, even if I do spot the obscure but critically wrong detail in your 'Ghost' story, RT.