Tackling Ben Stein's "Expelled"

[Imrational]

Religious fundamentalists frequently try to ban or boycott films critical of their religion/faith. I think such tactics are horrible.

Next month, Ben Stein is releasing "Expelled", a film critical of the scientific community while pushing Intelligent Design over Evolution. Many scientists are up in arms over this movie.

Instead of following the tactics created by repressive groups, I came up with (what I think) is a better method. I went to my local theater and asked them...
"If I were to make a short film pointing out flaws in Ben Stein's movie, refuting his points, would you be willing to show it before or after the screenings of 'Expelled'?"

Well, I received an answer last night. YES! They are willing to allow me to make a rebuttal movie!!!!! My film will still have to pass their review process, but I think that as long as I do a decent job, it shouldn't be a problem.

I am not able to see "Expelled" in advance. I will have to base my rebuttal strictly on the information released about "Expelled" to date. I've been studying the information so far released, which actually seems quite substantial.

My film is going to have to be quite short (probably around 10 minutes). I am NOT out to ridicule ID/Creationism, as that will lead to a quick death in the review process. My goal is to educate and point out flaws with Stein's arguments. I need concise and easily explainable points.

In short, I need help. If any of you can help me dig through information on "Expelled" and help me come up with points to make, I would greatly appreciate it.

Instead of ignoring "Expelled", we should use this as an opportunity to educate others. I think this tactic may really be used to promote science and skeptical thought.

I highly encourage you to approach theaters in your own cities to see if they would be open to showing my film or your own (if you want to make one of your own).

 

[Wowbagger]

Point out that science works by developing testable hypotheses, and then testing them against predictable results. ID proponents may act like they are scientists, but unless they are actively testing their ideas, they are void of actual science. The political and academic arguments are distractions from the real issues: ID has not been expelled, it flunked, on basic scientific premises.

 

[Imrational]

Thanks! I'm planning on something like that, although I love your quip about not being expelled but rather flunked out.

 

[Wowbagger]

Also mention: Evolution is NOT a theory about random chance. Natural Selection is non-random. Anyone who criticises Evolution, because they don't believe life came about through random chance, is misconstruing what the theory is about.

Evolution is neither chance nor design. It is a naturally occuring algorithm.

 

[Careyp74]

I cannot post links yet, but if you go to expelledthemovie dot com and click on downloads, you can get the press kit, which covers everything the movie will discuss.

Wow, there is a lot of mistakes in their claims, I am glad you pointed this movie out.

Does Randi already know about it? I think there should be an emergency edit to today's Swift.

 

[Wowbagger]

Yes, know thy "enemy": http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

 

[Careyp74]

Imational;

if you haven't already read Richard dawkin's "The God Delusion" I recommend it highly. There is every possible argument for Darwinism and evolution. It should give you all the tools you are looking for to battle Stein.

You know, I used to like him when he hosted "Beat the Geeks", and then saw "America's Most Smartest Model," (sic) and shook my head in dismay.

 

[JoeEllison]

You might mention that the "social aspects" of evolution are irrelevant. Science isn't in the game of destroying religious principles, and there's no conspiracy to attack Judeo-Christian belief.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Yes, know thy "enemy": http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) has long been battling creationists and promoting good science education (specifically, evolution), and they've already got a website up openly criticizing Ben Stein's b.s.

"Expelled" Exposed

You should share that website with anyone who is curious about what's really going on with this movie and the agneda behind it.

 

[Wowbagger]

if you haven't already read Richard dawkin's "The God Delusion" I recommend it highly. There is every possible argument for Darwinism and evolution.

I agree that The God Delusion is an excellent source of material for fighting these types of folks.
However, I disagree that it communicates "every possible argument for Darwinism". I felt it was weak in that area. All of Richard Dawkins' previous books cover the field of evolution better.

"Expelled" Exposed

Ooo! Nice index!

 

[Careyp74]

I disagree that it communicates "every possible argument for Darwinism". I felt it was weak in that area. All of Richard Dawkins' previous books cover the field of evolution better.

I meant in the sense that he gives good argument against all the attacks against Darwin from creationists. He is a good writer, so it is worth reading his other works also. The Ancestor's Tale is quite interesting, though not much value here.

 

[Imrational]

The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) has long been battling creationists and promoting good science education (specifically, evolution), and they've already got a website up openly criticizing Ben Stein's b.s.

"Expelled" Exposed

You should share that website with anyone who is curious about what's really going on with this movie and the agneda behind it.

Thanks! That link is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm looking for!

CareyP74, thanks, but I know tons of arguments against ID and creationism... and what I need are arguments specifically rebutting some of Stein's points in the movie.

 

[X]

Wasn't there somebody who wrote ascathing review of the movie?
He had his screening invite revoked, but ent anyway. And he was not made to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
I'd try contacting him, were I you.

Ah, here it is. I think.


ETA: perhaps you should try to contact scientists who were interviewed for the film, as well.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

We already have a number of threads on this subject. Could you add "Ben Stein" to your tags so they'll all come up in a tag search?

 

[Imrational]

We already have a number of threads on this subject. Could you add "Ben Stein" to your tags so they'll all come up in a tag search?

Added! Thanks.

PZ Myers, who is a scientist who will be appearing in Expelled, has agreed to be interviewed by me!!!!

Professor Myers was filmed by Expelled under false pretenses. Apparently, they did quite the hatchet job on his footage.

With this, and some basic points, I think I can make a decent rebuttal film!

 

[Olowkow]

Added! Thanks.

PZ Myers, who is a scientist who will be appearing in Expelled, has agreed to be interviewed by me!!!!

Professor Myers was filmed by Expelled under false pretenses. Apparently, they did quite the hatchet job on his footage.

With this, and some basic points, I think I can make a decent rebuttal film!

PZ was on "Infidel Guy" last Thursday with Reggie Finley. He still has not seen the movie, but has been told that they quoted him out of context. He is not a happy camper as they did not mention that they were a bunch of fundies.

 

[The skepTick]

You should check on the three professors who claim to be a victim of the academic establishment and were fired for teaching intelligent design/the problems with evolution.

For example, Dr. Caroline Crocker was not fired from George Mason University...they just did not renew her contract as she was only a term assistant professor. And her behavior goes back before the one incident she mentions. Check out ratemyprofessor.com, and you can see some students complaining about her proselytizing way back in 2003.

 

[JoeEllison]

You should check on the three professors who claim to be a victim of the academic establishment and were fired for teaching intelligent design/the problems with evolution.

For example, Dr. Caroline Crocker was not fired from George Mason University...they just did not renew her contract as she was only a term assistant professor. And her behavior goes back before the one incident she mentions. Check out ratemyprofessor.com, and you can see some students complaining about her proselytizing way back in 2003.

Is anyone surprised that pretty much everyone involved in ID is a liar?

 

[Imrational]

You should check on the three professors who claim to be a victim of the academic establishment and were fired for teaching intelligent design/the problems with evolution.

For example, Dr. Caroline Crocker was not fired from George Mason University...they just did not renew her contract as she was only a term assistant professor. And her behavior goes back before the one incident she mentions. Check out ratemyprofessor.com, and you can see some students complaining about her proselytizing way back in 2003.

Thank you! That is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I need.

 

[Monza]

...For example, Dr. Caroline Crocker was not fired from George Mason University...they just did not renew her contract as she was only a term assistant professor...

I read in a review of Expelled that there was another professor that the film claimed was fired from a major university (Harvard?). It turns out he was never actually employed, and so couldn't be fired. He had some sort of contract that was not renewed once the term was up. And it seems he still has an office at the university. All facts that were twisted in Expelled to make it sound more sinister.

PS: I believe my description above is accurate and is indeed of a different person than Dr. Caroline Crocker. Of course, I could be wrong. I'll try and find out where I read this and post a correction if need be.

EDIT: Here it is, in an article in the Colorado Confidential by Dan Whipple. The person I was referring to is Richard Sternberg. According to the article, Mr. Sternberg "was ousted from his position at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, and from his editorship of the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington when he published in that publication a peer-reviewed article of scientific evidence that supports intelligent design." In reality "Sternberg never worked for the Smithsonian, so the Smithsonian couldn't threaten his job there. He was a visiting scholar with research privileges, assigned an office. He still has both the office and the research privileges. He wasn't deprived of his editorship. His term as editor had expired so he was stepping down anyway in favor of another editor when the controversial ID article was published."