Synthetic

[Bruce]

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: 1syn·thet·ic
Pronunciation: sin-'the-tik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Greek synthetikos of composition, component, from syntithenai to put together
1 : relating to or involving synthesis : not analytic
2 : attributing to a subject something determined by observation rather than analysis of the nature of the subject and not resulting in self-contradiction if negated -- compare ANALYTIC
3 : characterized by frequent and systematic use of inflected forms to express grammatical relationships
4 a (1) : of, relating to, or produced by chemical or biochemical synthesis; especially : produced artificially <synthetic drugs> <synthetic silk> (2) : of or relating to a synfuel b : devised, arranged, or fabricated for special situations to imitate or replace usual realities

I'm bothered by the disdainful use of the word "synthetic" by the woo culture. Humans are not Gods. We do not create anything out of thin air. Everyting that we make comes from stuff that's already found in nature. If you are going to define synthetic as anything that has been touched by human hands, then everything you find on the shelf that is labeled "organic" or "all-natural" that isn't a living plant can be called "synthetic". This includes herbal suppliments, packaged snacks, vitamins, etc.

"Oh, but Bruce, the vitamin C pills that I'm taking are from all-natural oranges and not synthesized in a nasty, filthy, toxin-filled lab."

Bullcocky! The vitamin C pills you are taking were extracted from oranges, purified, powdered, smashed into capsules, and packaged in a laboratory environment. The only difference between synthetic vitamin C and natural vitamin C is that synthetic vitamin C orginated from petroleum, which is also a "natural" resource.

 

[drkitten]

I'm bothered by the disdainful use of the word "synthetic" by the woo culture. Humans are not Gods. We do not create anything out of thin air. Everyting that we make comes from stuff that's already found in nature. If you are going to define synthetic as anything that has been touched by human hands, then everything you find on the shelf that is labeled "organic" or "all-natural" that isn't a living plant can be called "synthetic". This includes herbal suppliments, packaged snacks, vitamins, etc.

And if you're going to define "straw man" as "an argument which is different from, and usually weaker than, the opposition's best argument," then you've just committed one. Even your MW definition (not the best dictionary out there, but hey, it's your brain, and if you want to fill it with junk food, go ahead) doesn't say anything about "has been touched by human hands." It specifically talks about "produced by chemical synthesis," which is a specific process with specific effects.

So, sure, the carbon atoms in synthetic vitamin C are probably the same as the carbon atoms in "organic" vitamin C as produced by oranges. On the other hand, I'd be rather surprised if you could show me either a) a laboratory sample of "synthetic vitamin C" that had not a single molecule of anything other than ascorbic acid in it, or b) a sample of "organic vitamin C" ditto. For that matter, given how many ways there usually are for organic substances to solidify, I'd be rather surprised if you could duplicate exactly the crystal structure of "vitamin C" as derived from orange juice, since crystals have a tendency to form odd shapes around impurities -- and crystal shapes are well known to be chemically active (look at coal vs. diamond).

So on the one hand, you've got a pill consisting mostly of ascorbic acid with a tenth of a percent of benzene as a contaminant, and on the other hand, you've got a pill consisting mostly of ascorbic acid with a tenth of a percent of some random orange enzyme. Sure, I'll believe you when you show me that the difference between the two is biochemically negigible. The lab bench is right over there, try not to traumatize the rats too much. But to reject offhand the possiblity that the benzene might have different effects than the orange enzyme? That's,... bizarre.

 

[Bruce]

Re: Re: Synthetic

So on the one hand, you've got a pill consisting mostly of ascorbic acid with a tenth of a percent of benzene as a contaminant, [/B]

You accuse me of using straw man tactics, and then claim that laboratory vitamin C contains benzene. Benzene has been banned as a solvent by the FDA for quite some time. May I nominate you for hypocrite of the month?

 

[drkitten]

Re: Re: Re: Synthetic

You accuse me of using straw man tactics, and then claim that laboratory vitamin C contains benzene. Benzene has been banned as a solvent by the FDA for quite some time. May I nominate you for hypocrite of the month?

Not unless you can actually address the contents of my posting, no.

 

[Bruce]

Aw, come on. Don't make me work. It's my turn to be the lazy skeptics that sits back and asks all the questions, and says "prove it" or "show me evidence, and then says "your source sucks, show me some REAL evidence".

Can't we just adapt a "more skeptical than thou" attitude and call each other names like all the other skeptics on this forum, and drag this thread out to 300+ replies?

It's much more fun. For example I could say, "prove to me that synthetic vitamin C contains benzene" or "show me evidence of herbal vitamin C that wasn't extracted with the same toxic solvents used to make synthetic vitamin C." Then for every question or demand that you don't answer, I could say, "evasion noted". I can also repeatedly point out that I said absolutely nothing about benzene or orange enymes in my OP.

Or, we could join forces and use our nefarious powers of debating to bring the woo culture to it knees. Join me, new drkitten, and together we will bash them all. Mwahahahaha.