Surge protectors - any point?

[richardm]

On a thread over in Politics and Current Affairs someone made a comment about surge protectors that implied that they were next-to-useless. It's not the first time I've heard this suggested.

I've always been of the opinion that they should help protect your gear from all but a direct lightning strike - and in that instance, you'd be too busy putting out the fire to worry about the condition of your electronics.

But what's the real deal, in your opinion?

 

[sadluxation]

Surge protectors are actually useful. All they are is a transformer that will stop voltage spikes being propogated.
It has managed to save alot of friends computers, especially in power cuts when a surge is most likely to happen.

 

[Segnosaur]

On a thread over in Politics and Current Affairs someone made a comment about surge protectors that implied that they were next-to-useless. It's not the first time I've heard this suggested.

I've always been of the opinion that they should help protect your gear from all but a direct lightning strike - and in that instance, you'd be too busy putting out the fire to worry about the condition of your electronics.

But what's the real deal, in your opinion?

I'm not sure how they all are now, but I remember quite a few years ago reading about all sorts of problems with them. Many were letting 'surges' through which were more than enough to damage electronics. Its probably a case of getting what you pay for.

I'd suggest if you get anything, you get an uninterruptable power supply (UPS). Not only will it provide some 'surge' protection, it will also protect your computer from small power 'dips' which can also damage equipment. If your compter is really important, then splurge and get an expensive one.

There are several types of UPS. The low end models tend to have battery backups, and the UPS switches to batteries when the power goes out. (The problem is, the switch to batteries takes a small amount of time, which can cause damage your computer.) More expensive UPS systems run your computer through the battery all the time (with electricity keeping the batteries charged all the time). These types of UPS systems don't have the same delay in 'switching' to batteries when the power fails, so they are a little safer.

 

[richardm]

The ones I use are from APC, and came with something like $50,000 worth of warranty cover if they let through a surge that cooked what it was protecting. I have no idea how difficult it would be to make a claim against that, but it did suggest that they have confidence in their product...

Or is that just my natural naivety showing through?

 

[pgwenthold]

Surge protectors are important because you can plug all your computer things into it and only use up one plug-in on the wall. Without it, I would have to run extension cords from the other side of the room.

 

[gethane]

One saved my computer last year

I'm sitting in my room, surfing at my computer. Had some sort of power surge (my lights dimmed, then surged). Shortly after I smell something burning. My hubbie and I frantically are looking around when my computer shuts off by itself. After investigating, something got burned out on the circuit board thing in my surge protector. Nothing plugged into it was harmed. I'd HATE to think what woulda happened had I not been using one.

(Not thunderstorms, no lightening, just a weird power surge which DO happen from time to time)

 

[Javalar]

Surge protectors are useful. It once protected by brand new computer (which I was assembling at the time) from my own idiocy. I don't remember what I did, but I do remember that it was really stupid.

The surge protector blew, but it could have been my computer and/or (brand new) screen instead!

 

[Andonyx]

It also depends on how "clean" your power is. I live in a city with relatively clean power, that is to say the voltage stays regulated well to between 100 and 120 volts, and the cycles stay pretty even to around 60Hz.

Really dirty power where the cycles change frequently, or the power drops anywhere from 60 to 180 volts can also be bad for equipment, but then you need a power conditioner like a Fuhrman rack unit.

If you have mission critical type stuff, like your life's work, or incredibly important company stuff on your PC, the un-interruprtible supply is the way to go.

For all other uses a good well recommended power strip / surge protector will do fine. They offer some good measure of protection if you get the ones that say, PCWeek or Maximum PC recommend, and I do believe APC is fairly highly regarded. And yes it is better than just the wall plug.

 

[garys_2k]

Cheapies just put an MOV across the lines and limit the voltage to about +/- 300 volts. This SHOULD be enough to protect equipment but power supplies with weak insulation could still be damaged by that. Better ones provide low pass filters (or high pass, to ground) that remove higher frequency spikes that can scramble data.

I'd say they're worth it, but it depends on the quality of your incoming power. They may not be for some people.

 

[arcticpenguin]

Cheapies just put an MOV across the lines and limit the voltage to about +/- 300 volts. This SHOULD be enough to protect equipment but power supplies with weak insulation could still be damaged by that. Better ones provide low pass filters (or high pass, to ground) that remove higher frequency spikes that can scramble data.

ISOBAR is a popular brand in University labs. The good models block RF noise as well as surges.

 

[scotth]

Surge protectors are actually useful. All they are is a transformer that will stop voltage spikes being propogated.
It has managed to save alot of friends computers, especially in power cuts when a surge is most likely to happen.

Surge protectors in general do not contain transformers.

 

[DrMatt]

BTDT

At my work, we are expected to use the standard issue Kensington surge protector.

Once, about year ago, an electrician accidentally shorted together two 120VAC circuits, making an effective 210-240VAC circuit. None of our computing equipment was harmed, but all our surge protectors blew, emitting puffs of smoke in the process. We got out fresh surge suppressors, plugged our stuff into them, waited until the electric crew could re-validate our power circuits, and plugged back in and got back to work.

I don't know whether they provide the kind of protection that is advertised, but they do seem to provide some protection against something.

 

[Ignatius]

Re: Re: Surge protectors - any point?

I'm not sure how they all are now, but I remember quite a few years ago reading about all sorts of problems with them. Many were letting 'surges' through which were more than enough to damage electronics. Its probably a case of getting what you pay for.

I'd suggest if you get anything, you get an uninterruptable power supply (UPS). Not only will it provide some 'surge' protection, it will also protect your computer from small power 'dips' which can also damage equipment. If your compter is really important, then splurge and get an expensive one.

There are several types of UPS. The low end models tend to have battery backups, and the UPS switches to batteries when the power goes out. (The problem is, the switch to batteries takes a small amount of time, which can cause damage your computer.) More expensive UPS systems run your computer through the battery all the time (with electricity keeping the batteries charged all the time). These types of UPS systems don't have the same delay in 'switching' to batteries when the power fails, so they are a little safer.

The UPS will only give you time to save your data when the power goes out. The surge protection offered by them is usually pretty bad. UL has different standards for the two. I've even seen a model of UPS where the telephone protection was not even connected to any surge protecting components (MOV"S, sidactors or fuses)!

Surge protectors are better than nothing, just not a hell of a lot better. MOVs are relatively slow-acting components. It is very common for a surge to get through to the connected equipment before the MOVs can react.

One common mistake is that people will forget to use the telephone line protection. I've seen almost as many computers damaged where the surge comes through the telephone line as I have the AC.

 

[Kiri]

Yes, they work! The company I work for sells and installs large-format copiers and plotters; we recommend the Isobars to our clients, and use them in the office on all the equipment.

Too bad our POS computers aren't worth protecting!

 

[rwald]

In my area, the power sometimes goes out for only a second or two. My battery-powered UPS is quick enough to respond, and since the power always comes back on very quickly, I never have a problem with the battery running down. It's helped me not infrequently.

 

[a_unique_person]

I have worked with mainframe computers and talked to an engineer about how useful they are.

We had a line filter, which was quite big and expensive. It would protect against surges, and also cope with a dropped cylce on the mainframe. When people say they don't work, I think they mean they won't prevent dropouts. You can put one on in an area with poor power supply, and still get your computer crashing. To cope with long dropouts, you need a UPS.

What a line filter will do is prevent some dropouts, and protect against surges. These can be very damaging, eg, when a powerline shorts due to a storm or traffic accident.

I have a cheapy MOV type surge protector. If I had more cash, I might buy one, but then again, I would probably buy a better graphics card.

Where I live, the power supply is usually pretty good. except when the odd possum gets fried.

I would recommend a surge protector and a UPS, if you have the cash, and make sure they are good quality. If you are running windows, it can interface to the UPS to start an orderly shutdown if the UPS is only small.

 

[jj]

Surge protectors are actually useful. All they are is a transformer that will stop voltage spikes being propogated.
It has managed to save alot of friends computers, especially in power cuts when a surge is most likely to happen.

Surge protectors are NOT generally transformers, they are surge protectors, usually MOV devices that have a high resistance until some avalance voltage is reached, and then a very low resistance to voltages above that voltage, so that anything large than that value gets shunted across the MOV.

They are sometimes good, sometimes bad. It is possible for a surge protector to save equipment not connected to anything else. It is also possible for a surge protector connected to something that has other connections to create a situation where more damage can occur.

Basically, if you protect any part of something, protect everything that goes into that box ON THE SAME GROUND and NEUTRAL.

If, say, it's a computer network, that can be hard, because the two ends need the same ground reference in order to be safe, and that isn't necessarily what you'll get in a strike.

In general, basic line surges will get stopped by surge protectors, but other kinds of surges can arrive on the ground or neutral lines, and the full issue of surge/lightning protection is not simple, nor is it necessarily "sure" or definitive.

 

[jj]

Re: One saved my computer last year

I'm sitting in my room, surfing at my computer. Had some sort of power surge (my lights dimmed, then surged). Shortly after I smell something burning. My hubbie and I frantically are looking around when my computer shuts off by itself. After investigating, something got burned out on the circuit board thing in my surge protector. Nothing plugged into it was harmed. I'd HATE to think what woulda happened had I not been using one.

(Not thunderstorms, no lightening, just a weird power surge which DO happen from time to time)

That "something" was the MOV protector. That surge protector most likely no longer protects, be warned.

 

[jj]

UPS's

A good UPS will do AC->DC->AC conversion at all times, not switch in and out, and will very effectively limit most line surges.

Not all UPS's are that way, and many UPS's have bad waveshapes that are not particularly good for the equipment they power.

Someone else's comment about MOV's and lp filters is well taken. A good surge protector has a fuse, then an MOV across the line, then a lowpass filter to pull spikes out. A cheap surge protector has an MOV soldiered across a socket.

 

[Crossbow]

Surge protectors do work! UPS's are better, but a surge protector is very inexpensive insurance.

However, there are many inexpensive power strips being sold which try hard to look like surge protectors but are really no more than a multi-plug extentsion cord. While the latter can be useful, I often use them to run power tools in my shop, I would not use them to protect something more fragile, like a computer.

So before you trust your expensive PC to the electrical grid, make sure your surge protector is the real thing!