Study finds no medical benefit from prayer..

Andonyx

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3193902.stm


The world's largest study into the effects of prayer on patients undergoing heart surgery has found it appears to make no difference. The MANTRA study, run from Duke University Medical Center in North Carolina, involved 750 patients.
Before their operations, they were randomly split into two groups, and half were prayed for by Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Muslims.
However, checks revealed they had fared no better than those not prayed for.


They discuss how this contradicts the earlier study mentioned often here, and examined in skeptical enquirer which was most likely flawed and actually demonstrated "retro-active" prayer benefit.
 
Thats curious. I´m wondering, does anyone have any more studies on this issue. Could come in handy some time.
 
This article describes the sad story of Dr. Targ and her study of the effects of prayer in AIDS.

To quote (and possibly give away the punch line, but you have to get to page 5 to find it. If you are only interested in the science, start on page 5. )

That her study had been unblinded and then "reblinded" to scour for data that confirmed the thesis - and the Western Journal of Medicine did not know this fact when it decided to publish.

Here the article
 
With so many studies, there are bound to be one or two every year that 'support' prayer.

What I wish for are publication of the studies that show that prayer is bad for the healing process.

Athon
 
There is no way to test prayer scientifically. It is nonfalsifiable. Therefore, all studies concerning it, positive and negative, are not only a waste of time, but of money.

How exactly does one control for the fact that someone, somewhere in the world may be praying for those in your control group? You can't, can you?
 
Now, if I were an ardent proponent of either of the religions mentioned, I'd say: "No wonder it did not work! Those heathens/infidels praying obviously cancelled out the positive effect of the prayers to the True God."

;) :rolleyes: :D

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Now, if I were an ardent proponent of either of the religions mentioned, I'd say: "No wonder it did not work! Those heathens/infidels praying obviously cancelled out the positive effect of the prayers to the True God."

;) :rolleyes: :D

Hans

Or maybe someone prayed that the test would fail. It is, after all, a sin to put God to the test. Remember.... Proof denies Faith.
:rolleyes:
 
The way you control for someone praying for controls is to have the official pray-ers use the super extra double triple strength prayers to overwhelm any effects on the controls. No problem.

~~ Paul
 
Hand Bent Spoon said:
How exactly does one control for the fact that someone, somewhere in the world may be praying for those in your control group? You can't, can you?
In Dr. Targ's study, it was apparently assumed that everyone would get some "background" prayer. That was OK, apparently.

This isn't anything to do with religion, quite frankly. It's magic.

Now one of the things about magic is that it ought to be done in secret. This is so that if the magic is offended, it won't know who to take its revenge on (on whom to take its revenge... ed.)

The next thing about magic is that it won't work if you peek.

Dr. Targ violated both these precepts. She was openly doing a scientific study to prove that magic is effective (i.e. she was peeking). Naturally, under these circumstances, the magic took great care to ensure that the whole thing was fouled up. Nevertheless, she then fiddled the statistics so that it looked as if she had proof that the magic did work - thus negating the intent of the magic, which would obviously be not to appear to be working during such a study.

Is it any wonder at all that events proceeded as they did? It's the solidest proof I've ever seen that magic is real. ;)

Why on earth are they wasting money on this nonsense? By the way, have you seen Phil Stevens' article, which was written before the denouement of the Targ thing. I believe he has another piece out more recently, but I don't have the url.

Rolfe.
 
athon said:
With so many studies, there are bound to be one or two every year that 'support' prayer.

What I wish for are publication of the studies that show that prayer is bad for the healing process.

Athon
Well, maybe not scientific studies so much, but you get news articles all the time about how prayer has killed someone. Usually a Christian Scientist.
 
Not only does this debunk the healing power of prayer. But I think it also goes a long way debunking observer based quantum looniness (heisenberg misinterpretation). If negative observers ruin psychic talents, then surely people praying for others should even be able to affect a good outcome even if there is no deity.
 
Hand Bent Spoon said:
There is no way to test prayer scientifically. It is nonfalsifiable. Therefore, all studies concerning it, positive and negative, are not only a waste of time, but of money.

How exactly does one control for the fact that someone, somewhere in the world may be praying for those in your control group? You can't, can you?

LOL, Little Johhny praying for all the sick people around the world before he goes to bed at night.
 

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