"Study Fails to Link Saturated Fat, Heart Disease"

[casebro]

Link to article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584922,00.html

A meta study, 21 studies that don't link saturated fats to heart disease.

My own belief is that Coronary Artery Disease (cad) is caused by sub-clinical allergy. Hey, if you can eat something that gives you hives on your skin, why can't it give you hives in the inner skin of your arteries?

Few, if any, studies prove that lowering cholesterol without statins lowers CAD rates. I think this shows that the benefit of statins is in their anti-inflammatory role. This concept is backed up by a Dr. Kounis, discoveror of "Kounis Syndrome", or allergic angina and allergic myocardial infarction. I think we are all familiar with anaphylactic shock? Why not milder allergic reaction? Chest pains and artery spasms?

Plus the fact that artery plaques have 200 times the mast cells in them as healthy artery walls. Mast cells are the source of the inflammatory histamines.

After having three angioplasties, I became familiar with this concept when I went gluten free, and my angina went away. Angioplasty free for three years now, vs nine months between the last two.

In the ensuing three years, I've only needed to take a nitro tab after eating gluten products, like beer, modified food starch, or soy sauce.

But a couple months ago, I cheated a bit on my diet, and paid the price. Angina seemed to be staying around a lot more. Until I got myself some histamine blockers. H1 (benadryl generic) and H2 (ranitidine) together. This is Dr. Kounis' prescription.

I'm convinced, it ain't the cholesterol, it's the histamine.

Side issue: Did you know that anti-histamines have anti-depressant actions? Perhaps the histamine causes neurological variations too? But I haven't looked into it yet. My poor health is depressing, but I do feel in a better mood since the anti-histamine regimen started. Due to lack of angina, or direct action, I don't know.

 

[Madalch]

I've read dozens of papers that failed to find a correlation between saturated fats and heart disease.

Mind you, they were all concerning the synthesis of heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes, but still....

 

[blutoski]

The foxnews report didn't have a citation, but I'm pretty sure it's this one: [Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease.]

Abstract:

BACKGROUND: A reduction in dietary saturated fat has generally been thought to improve cardiovascular health. OBJECTIVE: The objective of this meta-analysis was to summarize the evidence related to the association of dietary saturated fat with risk of coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke, and cardiovascular disease (CVD; CHD inclusive of stroke) in prospective epidemiologic studies. DESIGN: Twenty-one studies identified by searching MEDLINE and EMBASE databases and secondary referencing qualified for inclusion in this study. A random-effects model was used to derive composite relative risk estimates for CHD, stroke, and CVD. RESULTS: During 5-23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results. CONCLUSIONS: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.

I think we need to evaluate their 'random effects model,' since this is the key comparison. ie: they're saying (paraphrased) "well yes people who ate more saturated fat had a higher risk of CHD/CVD/Stroke, but our random effects model shows that the relationship is not really due to the saturated fats - probably due to people who don't eat a lot of saturated fats substitute and eat more of something else in their overall dietary pattern and that's the cause of the spurious correlation."

This is why there is no change in recommendations at this time.

 

[casebro]

Yeah, B, I'm wondering about some commonality of saturated fats to wheat, as a frinstance. Cheeseburgers come on buns, sausage and eggs come with toast, fried foods are breaded. Do those who eat the highest amount of saturated fats also eat the highest amounts of wheat? Is the Mediterranean Diet lower in wheat, as well as saturated fats? Is the Japanese CVD epidemic caused by increased wheat consumption, not the meat and cheese of the Big Mac? And, oatmeal is supposed to be a improvement too, but is that because it is a substitute for wheat at breakfast? Not because it lowers cholesterol?

Kaiser Permanente is a huge HMO. Their medical records are now or will be soon be computerized. Think of the studies they can do by somebody sitting at a lap top and looking at the spreadsheets of a million member's health records....

 

[casebro]

heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes, but still....

Isn't that a breach of rule 8, or rule 10, or something?

You go wash your keyboard out with soap for that.

 

[paximperium]

Yeah, B, I'm wondering about some commonality of saturated fats to wheat, as a frinstance. Cheeseburgers come on buns, sausage and eggs come with toast, fried foods are breaded. Do those who eat the highest amount of saturated fats also eat the highest amounts of wheat? Is the Mediterranean Diet lower in wheat, as well as saturated fats? Is the Japanese CVD epidemic caused by increased wheat consumption, not the meat and cheese of the Big Mac? And, oatmeal is supposed to be a improvement too, but is that because it is a substitute for wheat at breakfast? Not because it lowers cholesterol?

Whoa, I think you're mistakenly associating dietary fat intake with cholesterol levels.

Cholesterol levels and heart disease etc is well linked but it is well known that it is most strongly associated with genetic predisposition and exercise than diet for some time. This analysis just shows that fat intake does not really change these long term outcomes.

Kaiser Permanente is a huge HMO. Their medical records are now or will be soon be computerized. Think of the studies they can do by somebody sitting at a lap top and looking at the spreadsheets of a million member's health records....

Sorry to burst your bubble but KP has been one of the biggest producers of epidemiologic research for decades. Computerizing their medical records won't change their already huge computerized database that they use for research.

 

[fls]

Kaiser Permanente is a huge HMO. Their medical records are now or will be soon be computerized. Think of the studies they can do by somebody sitting at a lap top and looking at the spreadsheets of a million member's health records....

It may interest you to know that there are many other computerized databases available, and this type of research has already been taking place for decades.

ETA: and what Paximperium said about KP's already substantial contribution to this field.

Linda

 

[fls]

The foxnews report didn't have a citation, but I'm pretty sure it's this one: [Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease.]

Abstract:

I think we need to evaluate their 'random effects model,' since this is the key comparison. ie: they're saying (paraphrased) "well yes people who ate more saturated fat had a higher risk of CHD/CVD/Stroke, but our random effects model shows that the relationship is not really due to the saturated fats - probably due to people who don't eat a lot of saturated fats substitute and eat more of something else in their overall dietary pattern and that's the cause of the spurious correlation."

This is why there is no change in recommendations at this time.

"Random effects model" refers to the way in which the combined data is treated when forming means and confidence intervals (as opposed to a fixed-effects model), not to an analysis of the effects of other variables. It sounds like what you are referring to is a meta-regression.

Linda

 

[Fnord]

Look, I can't even pronounce "heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes" without violating anti-harassment rules at work, so just tell me if I should stop taking Lipitor with my double bacon cheddar cheeseburgers, okay?

 

[casebro]

I googled "heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes", and this thread came up 4th. Already.

 

[fls]

Whoa, I think you're mistakenly associating dietary fat intake with cholesterol levels.

Cholesterol levels and heart disease etc is well linked but it is well known that it is most strongly associated with genetic predisposition and exercise than diet for some time. This analysis just shows that fat intake does not really change these long term outcomes.

Yeah, this reminds of studies looking at whether diets high in sugar put you at risk of diabetes or diets high in sodium put you at risk of hypertension. That a diet high in sugar does not 'cause' diabetes doesn't mean that complications aren't avoided by controlling blood sugar.

Linda

 

[casebro]

Didn't I see something like "heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes" in my reading up on histamines? other mast cell by-products?

 

[casebro]

Look, I can't even pronounce "heterobinuclear organotransition metal phosphine complexes" without violating anti-harassment rules at work, so just tell me if I should stop taking Lipitor with my double bacon cheddar cheeseburgers, okay?

A friend who has had more CAD than me, tells me that his cardiologist told him to continue with the statin, even thought his lipid numbers are excellent. The Doc claims that the statin will re-form the plaque for an improved outcome. Sounds to me like the statin is anti-mast-cell activity, don't it? Plus the late study the statins help even those with low cholesterol to avoid cad.

Hmm, are there any off-label uses for statins? Anti-inflammatory?

I think the winds, they are achanging.

 

[casebro]

Madalch, I get 9,000 hits for <organo metal phosphine complexes histamine>.

Looks like you are looking for a cad/fats/histamine connection with metalloa geshundheits. Don't let the cat out of the bag?

 

[Soapy Sam]

Wait a minute.
Does this mean it's OK to eat bacon and cheese sandwiches, or not?

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Wait a minute.
Does this mean it's OK to eat bacon and cheese sandwiches, or not?

Depends on what you mean by okay. The stronger your genetic risk for heart disease, the less okay it is. Also take into account your exercise and your metabolism. Eating too many fatty foods contributes to becoming... fat. Being overweight complicates just about everything in health.

Think of fatty foods like a bullet and heart disease like a gun. You can probably survive having a bullet thrown at you. Having a bullet shot at you is quite a bit riskier. Having a mountain of bullets dropped on you is also risky.

 

[blutoski]

"Random effects model" refers to the way in which the combined data is treated when forming means and confidence intervals (as opposed to a fixed-effects model), not to an analysis of the effects of other variables. It sounds like what you are referring to is a meta-regression.

Ah. I stand educated.

I do have a question, then:

Why do you think Eckel would not expect a change in medical attitude about saturated fat:

But, he pointed out, many studies have shown that dietary saturated fat can raise people's cholesterol, and the new analysis is not going to change recommendations to keep saturated fat intake in check.

 

[casebro]

Some day, the powers that be will come around to the fact that statins do two things. The cholesterol lowering is not the active item. This is proven by all the non-statin drug studies that show cholesterol lowereing but "this drug has NOT been shown to lower mortality".

 

[bpesta22]

I've never heard of this gluten thing. Any quick references to peer-reviewed A journal stuff?

 

[Maia]

There's no need to argue that lots of saturated fat is good for anybody to see that while Americans have reduced their intake of red meat, eggs, milk, and all saturated fats since 1970, obesity rates have skyrocketed (Schiff, Nutrition for Healthy Living, 2009). Two-thirds of all Americans are now overweight. How did this happen? Well, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, between 1971 and 2000 American women increased the number of calories they consumed by 22 percent (from 1,542 to 1,877 per day), while men increased their intake by 7 percent (from 2,450 to 2,618 calories). The vast majority of this increase came from simple carbohydrates, especially refined sugars and particularly high-fructose corn syrup. Carbonated soft drinks alone are the single biggest source of calories in the American diet, providing about 7 percent of calories; adding in noncarbonated drinks brings the figure to 9 percent. Teenagers get 13 percent of their calories from carbonated and noncarbonated soft drinks. (Learn more here.) Also, less than one-fifth of all Americans get any exercise on an average day (and remember, this figure comes from self-reports, so we're talking about a number that people were willing to admit. How many people do you think were inflating the truth? The actual figure is probably much lower-- my guess is more like 10%, if that. Learn more here.)

In short, if we want to do anything about the epidemic of overweight and obesity in America, everybody needs to stop wasting their time and energy worrying about saturated fat. It is a tiny part of the problem, and we're never going to get anywhere if we keep concentrating on this non-issue. Being overweight and obese is linked to a variety of diseases, including coronary artery disease, and if people eat too many calories and get too little exercise, guess what's going to happen. Cutting out saturated fat, adding lots and lots of carbs and sugars to more than replace the calories, and eliminating exercise is a great way to gain weight. That's exactly what happened to a lot of people in America.