Struggling with religion

[SkepticSteph]

A little history:

I was raised Lutheran in a small town in Minnesota. I never *really* believed that Jesus was God, but at the same time, it was a little town and some people know what that is like. You just go with the flow or you are ostracized. So...I was baptized as an infant, I went to religious school, was a member of Luther League and Youth for Christ, and was confirmed in the faith. It was all sort of expected. I am not sure I believed any of it, but I also didn't give it that much thought. I was always also politically liberal and socially liberal, so Lutheran did not directly contradict that.

I pretty much dropped out of all organized religion in college and while I was in the military. I married someone else who was not religious, but to appease my mom, we DID get married in a church.

We had two kids, and agreed to raise them without religion. It was working until our daughter died. Although it was incredibly painful, it was not difficult for me to believe that she lives on through us and our memories, but she was dead. I honestly did NOT believe that we would be reunited in heaven and play harps or anything else, and I was okay with that. My husband, however, went back to organized religion to deal with his pain. He is now a fundamentalist Christian. We had another baby a year or so later, and despite his new religion, he continued to allow the kids to be raised nothing.

However, as the kids got older, they started WANTING religion. The Baptist bus would come by and pick up the kids for sugar-filled parties, their friends were involved in Scouts or other activities that required us to check a box about religious beliefs. So, I started researching religions, and found that Reform Judaism worked well. Keep a very loose and liberal God, but lose the fundamentalism, the lies, the heaven, the Jesus and all that stuff I just didn't and couldn't believe. The kids and I went through a process of conversion and it felt GREAT to officially lose Jesus and Christianity. It was freeing, but still within the realm of "acceptability". Judaism is something I honestly love and want to keep. I love the unity and traditional aspects of it.

However, it is becoming more and more obvious to me that I am an atheist. It doesn't bother me that there is no heaven or hell, no afterlife at all. It doesn't bother me that there is no higher power, and that I am completely in charge of my life. In fact, I find all of this freeing.

The problems involved with this, though, is that I LOVE Judaism. I really, really do. I love being associated with the Jewish people and I feel so at home with them. It is like family. The other problem is my husband, who is fine with us being Jewish, but would NOT be fine with me being an atheist. I love him very much, but this is a deal breaker for him. I love him enough to keep it in the closet.

So, my question is, how do I remain Jewish when I am really an atheist? Can I still be a secular Jew? A Humanist Jew?

Thanks for any input, and please try to respect my position.

Steph

 

[Cosmo]

I'm sorry for your loss.

I was born and raised Jewish myself. I was Bar Mitzvahed at 13, as normal, and have gradually moved towards atheism since then.

I think it's important to distinguish between cultural and religious Judaism. The former involves the food, customs, and families; the latter is the prayers, religious ceremonies, and so on. Despite my atheism, I still enjoy the heck out of latkes and I'm always down for some matzah (even though I don't eat only unleavened bread during Passover).

My advice, then, is to determine exactly what it is about Judaism that you enjoy so much. Is it the food, the family, the prayers? You are absolutely able to pick-and-choose, remember!

 

[Blutarsky]

First let me express my condolences for your loss...

As far as your situation, I think you could honestly treat it as a social club, which you have apparently done up until this point...just understand you're there to enjoy the people you're with and make the best of an awkward set of circumstances. Trust me, most "devout" people are there for the fellowship and can barely stay awake for anything else...

I'm in a bit of a reverse situation to yours. I'm a Christian who can't stand church, and my wife and I don't really have a place we're comfortable with.

Enjoy the tradition and unity and adapt the nuggets you can extract and use in your life.

Lastly, be honest with your husband. Whatever you decide I would think it best to be honest and trust that the person you married is comfortable enough with their own faith to let you figure yours out, or let go of it, without freaking out.

Just my two cents...anyhow, good luck

 

[Kopji]

Hi SkepticSteph,
My condolences on the loss of your child. Your post was well written and I thought touched well on the complexities and difficulties of real life.

I don't have any real advice for you, but I think you are doing just fine.

Two perspectives that I have found useful I keep in mind: One is that with family, nobody arrives alone - you do not get where you are going unless you get there together. Sometimes that means compromise. Stand fast when you can, and compromise when you need to.

The other idea is that you are a kind of pioneer. Religions have have created much of the world we find ourselves in and it is hard to find an 'atheist' way through it. It takes courage and a certain amount of pluckiness (is that a word?) to make your own paths, or find a way for those not yet here.

If you have not discovered them already, a nice site specializing on the unique issues faced by atheist parents is:

http://www.atheistparents.org/forum/

Good luck with your life!

 

[Dogdoctor]

It is interesting that your kids want religion. I wanted religion as a child also. I have no experience with hiding your beliefs (and before some radical atheist starts ranting about atheism not being a belief) or lack of belief. I don't think such beliefs or the lack of beliefs are important. No advice for your marriage sorry. What do your kids think about the new religion?

 

[jesus_freak]

Very sorry to hear about the loss of your child. I have two myself and can't imagine how difficult that must be for you and your family. I do believe that your child is in Heaven, and that is a wonderful thought for me to imagine. With all the religion and beliefs that are out there, there is one thing that you must know...There is only one truth, and people can believe what ever they want but at the end of the day there is only one truth. I hope that you continue to explore for what you truly believe and I hope that what ever you choose is correct. As a Christian I ask that if you ever do accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior that you do not do it because of the fear of hell or because you want to see your child again after you die, or because your husband or anyone else makes you feel like you have to.

 

[username]

We had another baby a year or so later, and despite his new religion, he continued to allow the kids to be raised nothing...

However, it is becoming more and more obvious to me that I am an atheist...

The problems involved with this, though, is that I LOVE Judaism...

The other problem is my husband, who is fine with us being Jewish, but would NOT be fine with me being an atheist. I love him very much, but this is a deal breaker for him. I love him enough to keep it in the closet...

So, my question is, how do I remain Jewish when I am really an atheist? Can I still be a secular Jew? A Humanist Jew?...

Thanks for any input, and please try to respect my position.

As others have noted I do not see any particular problem with being atheist and belonging to a religious group, particularly if it is a very liberal, non fundy group. There are many atheist Jews. You, however, seem to be expressing that there is a tension for you with being Jewish and atheist. I would ask you to try to articulate the tension as I do not see what the tension is from your post.

I also do not understand your husband considering atheism being a deal breaker. I have spent some time myself as a Christian fundy (now atheist) and I was taught that believers were not to be 'unequally yoked'. That part I get, but the fact that your husband is OK with your kids not being churched in his faith bewilders me. That he is OK with your not believing in Jesus (being Jewish), but not being OK with not believing anything is just odd to me.

If your husband is a fundamentalist Christian I would expect him to not be OK with your being anything other than Christian and certainly not OK with your children not being churched in a Christian environment. In the mind of a fundamentalist Jews are going to burn in hell because they do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. How could a Christian fundamentalist father stand by and be OK with his wife raising his children as non believers in 'The Lord'?

I can't say much regarding your queries because I am not able to understand the situation you are in.

Feel free to expand on what you have said, or not, at your discretion.

 

[SimonD]

I'm sorry for your loss.

I was born and raised Jewish myself. I was Bar Mitzvahed at 13, as normal, and have gradually moved towards atheism since then.

I think it's important to distinguish between cultural and religious Judaism. The former involves the food, customs, and families; the latter is the prayers, religious ceremonies, and so on. Despite my atheism, I still enjoy the heck out of latkes and I'm always down for some matzah (even though I don't eat only unleavened bread during Passover).

There is a lot more to being Jewish then just the religion. I am not Jewish, but being brought up Irish and catholic in Australia, I can kind of understand where you are coming from. I love the music and the craic, but get annoyed when people say to me, 'I didn't see you at church on Sunday' It's mainly the older generation who say this to me, though.

Perhaps you might want to introduce your children into a wider concept of religion. Perhaps you could teach them about the other religions and what they believe. It may help them to understand the concept beyond the narrow view that the fundies push.

I know it's never easy when it comes to love, but a man that would put his religion before his family? Sounds pretty harsh on his behalf. While I would never try to understand what you went though, with the death of your child, it does sound like he may need some professional medical help. I lost my mother through cancer and a fiancé through a car crash and I can tell you that seeing a therapist can really help.

 

[SkepticSteph]

As others have noted I do not see any particular problem with being atheist and belonging to a religious group, particularly if it is a very liberal, non fundy group. There are many atheist Jews. You, however, seem to be expressing that there is a tension for you with being Jewish and atheist. I would ask you to try to articulate the tension as I do not see what the tension is from your post.

I also do not understand your husband considering atheism being a deal breaker. I have spent some time myself as a Christian fundy (now atheist) and I was taught that believers were not to be 'unequally yoked'. That part I get, but the fact that your husband is OK with your kids not being churched in his faith bewilders me. That he is OK with your not believing in Jesus (being Jewish), but not being OK with not believing anything is just odd to me.

If your husband is a fundamentalist Christian I would expect him to not be OK with your being anything other than Christian and certainly not OK with your children not being churched in a Christian environment. In the mind of a fundamentalist Jews are going to burn in hell because they do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. How could a Christian fundamentalist father stand by and be OK with his wife raising his children as non believers in 'The Lord'?

I can't say much regarding your queries because I am not able to understand the situation you are in.

Feel free to expand on what you have said, or not, at your discretion.

Thank you for your condolences. Before she died, I never thought I could live again, but I had a toddler and was pregnant with my son. I found enormous strength through my kids. It is amazing, the power of that love.

As for my husband, it DOES bother him that I am not Christian, but he is willing to overlook that because he loves me. As for the kids, he is not at all involved with them on a religious level...he has never been in a synagogue, even. However, they went to a private Jewish school and he paid the bill...I think he knows, on some level, that his religion is false, but he doesn't want to give it up for emotional reasons. He doesn't go to church or really DO anything--he just professes these strange beliefs. Yet, when push comes to shove, he is FOR gay rights (something his church vehemently opposes) is pro-choice and votes Democrat/Liberal. So we mostly don't discuss religion. He really believes that I will be going to heaven, as will the kids, because of a "loophole" that "God reads hearts". Under that theory, anyone who is a good person is saved despite their religious beliefs. He usually says, "As long as you believe in God, I can deal with this..." hinting that this is the unwritten line.

I know he loves the kids and me more than any religion, so I think I will just drop most of the Jewish stuff I don't agree with, keep the stuff I like, and move on. I DO love the community part, and the Hebrew, and the celebrations, even if they are based on something that never happened. After all, most Reform Jews pretty much acknowledge that Hannukah is completely made up "because we needed a winter holiday" and that the Exodus "probably didn't happen", but we still love the 8 crazy nights and the (drunken) Seder. So....I think I agree with the other posters and will keep what I love about it and leave it at that.