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Strange afterglow from lightening

CaveDave

Semicentenarian Troglodyte
CaveDave
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Last night, after some violent thunderstorms had knocked out the power to my area, I observed something that I am at a loss to explain or even fully describe.

The storm had temporarily (over my location) ceased raining, but the electrical discharges were rapidly growing in frequency and intensity, soon exceeding what I have observed in many years.
The power was still out, so I went outside to watch the light show and it's many nearby discharges.
At one strike, which I estimate at one to three miles distant and was directly facing, there appeared to be a greenish-blue "fountain" that emanated from the point of strike upwards, lasting perhaps a quarter second after the main bolt ceased. This was followed by another similar "fountain" maybe 1/2 second later and a finger's length at arm's reach to the left of the first discharge, but without the main bolt. Both seemed about the same distance away, and behind a distant (3/4 mile away) row of large trees.

I described the display as a "fountain", but "brush discharge" or "corona" as seen in high-voltage circuits might be more accurate. The appearance was of an inverted cone of blue luminance maybe 30 degrees angle, turning more to green towards the middle, extending perhaps a thumbnail width at arm's length above the horizon.

Pardon my use of inexact measures, but that is all I had available.
I have only seen this once, though I continued to watch until the downpour started again, and the most curious part is the delayed, sideshifted, repeat display.

Does anyone have any experience with this phenomena?

Thank you.

Dave
 
I have never seen that and do not know enough about weather or electricity to explain it. So instead I will correct your spelling:

lightning

its
 
You may be the first person I have ever heard of, to witness a Transient Luminous Event from the ground.

From your description I first thought red sprite, but with these things, even the names are not always enough to describe them. It might have been a blue starter.

Very cool. I've always wanted to see something like that.
 
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robinson said:
You may be the first person I have ever heard of, to witness a Transient Luminous Event from the ground.

From your description I first thought red sprite, but with these things, even the names are not always enough to describe them. It might have been a blue starter.

Very cool. I've always wanted to see something like that.
Click to expand...

Whatever this phenomena was, it most resembled the "blue jet" in the diagram on your link, except it was wider (about a 30 degree cone), and it seemed to be at or near ground level, the first from the apparant point of "impact" and the secondary from a point a few degrees to the left. Time from strike to thunderclap was a few seconds and the flash and noise were extraordinarily intense. I could see the distant trees in silhouette, so it must have been at least a mile away. This was a massively powerfull storm, even for our area. There are also large cross-country powerlines in that direction and a generating station, but I don't know if they were hit or not.

It would be cool if this was a related effect.:)

ETA: At the time I saw this, my first thought was of ball lightning or other plasma/plasmoid type phenomena, especially because of the "echo" appearing after a delay.

reETA:The description of the "Blue starter" in your link said:
"differ from blue jets in that the are brighter but shorter (reaching to only about 12 miles altitude). These were reported to occur over regions where large hailstones were falling"
which reminded me that I neglected to mention that these storms were full of large (up to 2 inch) hail area wide.

Dave
 
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It sounds like St. Elmo's FireWP to me, perhaps discharging from the tops of the trees or powerlines.
 
When you say greenish blue, I think burning copper.



Most urban areas have containers of copper on polls which are probably an ancient sacrifice to the lightning gods.
 
robinson said:
Do you think it could have been photographed? Was it that bright?
Click to expand...

After the 1 1/2 hours of power failure, my eyes were somewhat dark-adjusted, but that might have been reduced by my watching the unusually frequent and intense discharge displays at the time.

That said, I believe the blue brushes were well within the range a camera with a relatively fast film (or sensor) and a decently fast lens to capture, if the main strike (long, wide, bright and persistant) didn't wash it out. The secondary brush should have been easily imigable.

Too bad I had no camera and lack the reflexes to have tripped it in time.:(

Dave
 
tek said:
It sounds like St. Elmo's FireWP to me, perhaps discharging from the tops of the trees or powerlines.
Click to expand...

Could be, I don't know.

It seemed to come from near ground level some distance behind the tree line, but there are many possible targets in that direction.

My area is at the southern end of the Great Plains of North America and therefore exceedingly flat: trees, buildings, power lines, and communication masts are always the first targets, and you can see mostly unobstructed for many miles.

Dave
 
Dan O. said:
When you say greenish blue, I think burning copper.

Click to expand...
I thought about that, too.
The blue nearer the sides was a cobalt-ish deep blue and the middle third was only slightly toward the green. I think it was less resembling copper ion than maybe different atmospheric components/ionization levels.
part of my reason for doubting metal ions sputtered from the "target" is that if my ranging and height estimates are anywhere close, those ions would have had to reach several hundreds of feet altitude it a very short time.
I tend to think more along the lines of the outer cone being ionized normal atmospheric gasses, and the inner cone (where the bolt had passed) being maybe some short lived compound of the otherwise normal gasses (O3, NOx, etc.)
Or I might be full of fertilizer.:)

Dan O. said:
Most urban areas have containers of copper on polls which are probably an ancient sacrifice to the lightning gods.
Click to expand...

I call that coverin' yer bases.:D



I did not attempt to view the YouTube stuff you linked due to problems with my machine/connection (Takes hours, sometimes locks up).
Was there anything there I should take the chance on?

Dave
 
If anyone has access to the US weather radar data recordings, the June 19,2008 2000hrs thru 2230hrs Central Daylight Time, covering northern west Texas and eastern New Mexico should show the extents and intensity of this storm system.

The bolt that caused the previously described phenomenon was probably the largest and most intense I have ever seen.
It was unusual in several other ways, too. It was quite wide (thick) compared to normal strikes. It was nearly straight, as opposed to zig-zagging or branching. It did not "flicker" or show multiple restrikes: it went to full intensity at once, held that for the duration, then extinguished completely. It was by far the brightest and longest duration I observed that night.

It sort-of fit the description in Robinson's link of "upward lightning"

Hope this clarifies things.

Dave
 
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http://www.wunderground.com/history/

You should be able to find the storm there.

Considering the matter further, it sounds more like it was generated by the power grid than just the lightning. If you can drive to the area you were observing, you might be able to find the structures responsible.

Definitely not a Transient Luminous Event, in terms of the links I first provided. Those are all upper atmosphere events. I misunderstood your description at first.
 
It sounds like light from arcing in power lines or a substation that is hidden from direct view, being filtered through trees and buildings and lighting up a roughly cone shaped volume of fog or rain.

 
The initial strike was probably a superbolt.

The subsequent discharges would then be similar to St. Elmo's fire but mega-sized.
 
robinson said:
http://www.wunderground.com/history/

You should be able to find the storm there.

Considering the matter further, it sounds more like it was generated by the power grid than just the lightning. If you can drive to the area you were observing, you might be able to find the structures responsible.

Definitely not a Transient Luminous Event, in terms of the links I first provided. Those are all upper atmosphere events. I misunderstood your description at first.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I could not find history of radar images, just histories of conditions. There were over 50 MPH gusts (!) around the time of the event and 10 mile visibility.

I knew it wasn't one of those high-altitude TLE phenomena, though it did resemble some of them in appearance.

As soon as I can, I may try to look around out that way, but with a 1 to 10 mile range and an uncertain direction (plus that area being mostly cotton fields with few paved roads) I don't hold out much hope.

Dave
 
soylent said:
It sounds like light from arcing in power lines or a substation that is hidden from direct view, being filtered through trees and buildings and lighting up a roughly cone shaped volume of fog or rain.

Click to expand...

That is possible, but it was extending well above the trees, with only the base obscured. The upper portion was quite clear. Those trees are around 50 feet tall, and I estimate over 3/4 of the visible glow extended above them.

Dave
 
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