Spoon bending

[Mancunian]

Hi

Has Uri Geller ever bent anything other than spoons and keys? Why, in the supposed scientific test he went under, was he not given a uniform metal rod and asked to bend it at a specific point?

It seems to me that the spoon bending is always done at the same point (i.e. the thinnest bit). Spoons and keys also have roughly the same shape (i.e. a long thin bit and a round bit at the end). I reckon the shape has something to do with creating the illusion.

What does anyone else think?

Dom

 

[Ashles]

Welcome to the forum.

We have in the past (as you can imagine) discussed Uri quite a bit.

If you have a search through the commentaries you will see that there isn't much doubt as to how Uri bends spoons.

To be honest I feel that people round here seem to have lost interest a bit in Uri Geller's spoon bending abilities as they are so thoroughly documented (with actual video evidence) as to how he does it.

Yes he doesn't bend thick metal bars. And no he can't bend anything without touching it and holding it tightly in both hands.

This has led certain people to believe he just bends them with his hands as you or I might and it is all in the performance and angles of view and speed which he bends them.

Tch, some people are so sceptical aren't they?

Let's just say that these days not even Jambo believes in Uri Geller, and if you hang around these forums for a bit you will understand what a powerful statement that is.

Edited to add:
A great description of Uri bending a key with very interesting video footage.

 

[Chimera]

This is probably common knowledge around here, but this seems as reasonable an explanation as any:

link: http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/SkepticsAdelaideLively51.htm

The spoon-bending performer was Mike Garrett - a committee member of the Skeptics. When John Foley’s glasses fell Mike exclaimed, “These things happen around me all the time! When you get home tonight some of you will find your keys bent!”

Yes, the spoon really did seem to bend—and then break into two.

Laurie Eddie explained, “The spoon was already bent before Mike started. The bend was hidden by his hand. Spoons have a curved handle and so are designed to be bent. Psychics weaken the spoons they use by repeated bending before their performance. After that, bending and breaking them takes very little effort. Knives are not designed to be bent and psychics don’t bend them. If psychic energy is involved why spoons and not knives?"

It would be nice to see a controlled experiment with rod bending. But I won't hold my breath.

Jen : )

 

[Azrael 5]

Give him a knife to bend,if he can only do cutlery:they tend to be a bit more thicker shafted than spoons.

Ash,Ive PM'd you.

 

[walthrup48]

Hi

Has Uri Geller ever bent anything other than spoons and keys?

Yes, he's bent forks too. And the hands on watches. But hey, he does a lot of work for charity so he must be genuine. Or something.

 

[JLam]

It would be nice to see a controlled experiment with rod bending. But I won't hold my breath.
[/B]

Professional mentalists can bend spikes, corkscrews, nails, etc...see people like Banachek and Richard Osterlind. However, they don't pass themselves off as genuine. They leave an air of mystery surrounding their performances, yes, but they don't claim to be psychics.

 

[Open Mind]

I've never spent much time on Uri Geller claims (far more interesting cases out there with far less showmanship IMO) but perhaps someone in here can tell me how Uri bends a key, a spoon is much easier to bend with hands/fingers. Bending a key with the fingers/ hands alone is actually very tough (I couldn't do it..... go try it )

So is he using some technique or tool to apply more leverage? Did he weaken it prior to program (in which case I'm not sure why he made two clear unnecessary gestures to bend it and cast needless doubt upon his trick). Or if he really is just bending it with only his fingers there and then, was he just very lucky to be given a softer metal key? Pity we don't see a bit earlier footage.

I do agree the key doesn't seem to bend when it is visible, so if this is real paranormal, we would almost need a hypothesis that whatever invisible force produces such paranormal macro PK, it hides it in such ambiguity and leaves the the observer thinking it is a trick. Then the paranormal force would seem to be a trickster

Hi

Has Uri Geller ever bent anything other than spoons and keys? Why, in the supposed scientific test he went under, was he not given a uniform metal rod and asked to bend it at a specific point?

The most quoted trial of Geller (Targ and Puthoff's), actually never confirmed or claimed he could bend metal , they did however claim Geller had ESP abilities and stood by their research.

For metal bending specifically, I think around mid 1990s .......

Professor Charles Crussard (Professor of Metallurgy, School of Mines, Paris and Scientific Director of Pecheney, France) 'Uri bent a strong heat-treated alloy bar held by myself and my assistant at each end. There was absolutely no pressure exerted by Uri while the bar was bending. All the controlled experiments I conducted with Uri Geller have been described in Sciences et Avenir. no. 345. pp. 1108-1113.

http://www.uri-geller.com/geller-effect/tge18.htm

 

[Ashles]

Re: Re: Spoon bending

I've never spent much time on Uri Geller claims (far more interesting cases out there with far less showmanship IMO) but perhaps someone in here can tell me how Uri bends a key, a spoon is much easier to bend with hands/fingers. Bending a key with the fingers/ hands alone is actually very tough (I couldn't do it..... go try it )

Okay I'll make this real quick and simple Open Mind. Does it possibly occur to you that... dum dum dum... Uri has stronger fingers than you and I because he does this quite often?

How do weightlifters lift those weights? I certainly couldn't. Maybe, oh I don't now, they, er, practice?

Honestly, trying to introduce some exciting doubt into the world of Uri Geller's 'bending' is really rather pointless.

What's your next post going to be Open Mind? How does James Randi separate playing cards into red and black?

I tell you what, doing that "is actually very tough (I couldn't do it..... go try it )"

 

[walthrup48]

Re: Re: Spoon bending

[...] perhaps someone in here can tell me how Uri bends a key [...]

Duh. Paranormal powers, of course. Lesser mortals have been known to use the hole in another key for leverage though. Ho hum.

 

[Open Mind]

Re: Re: Re: Spoon bending

Okay I'll make this real quick and simple Open Mind. Does it possibly occur to you that... dum dum dum... Uri has stronger fingers than you and I because he does this quite often?

How do weightlifters lift those weights? I certainly couldn't. Maybe, oh I don't now, they, er, practice?

Possibly, I do think my fingers and wrists are stronger and fitter than average, I was a classically trained musician and I practiced hours a day for couple of decades before realizing nobody wanted to listen to me However that could be a reason why I cannot bend it, the old psychological fear of damaging my paws still remains. Or maybe I just have better quality old keys

Honestly, trying to introduce some exciting doubt into the world of Uri Geller's 'bending' is really rather pointless.

Ashles, I was asking for expertise on how he manually bends the key? What is so unfair about that? You say it is brute force? You might be right, can anyone bend a key in here with their fingers?

 

[Open Mind]

Re: Re: Re: Spoon bending

Duh. Paranormal powers, of course. Lesser mortals have been known to use the hole in another key for leverage though. Ho hum.

That works Cheers

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Spoon bending

That works Cheers

I can bend keys using three different "tricks" that you would never spot.

I can also "mentally" make you put a mixed pack of cards into red and black piles a la Randi.

I paid good money to learn how to do this. That is what most magicians do. Most magic shops stock a video by a conjurer named Guy Bavli where he demonstrates the tricks behind metal bending -- forks, spoons, big nails.

You can watch his show on the video before he exposes the secrets. You will be convinced he is doing it without any tricks -- until he shows just how he goes it.

Then you might feel very silly for having been so easily deceived.

 

[Open Mind]

You will be convinced he is doing it without any tricks -- until he shows just how he goes it.

Then you might feel very silly for having been so easily deceived.

Dude, I won't 'feel very silly' because I have never claimed Geller was genuine Nor would a video of a spoon/metal bender impress me much, it might have in the 1970s, not today I’m not ‘easily' deceived’…… yes I can be deceived, anyone can.

Sceptics are working with different principles. I'm not the sort of sceptic to convict a man in court because he had opportunity to commit a crime, I require evidence for and against. I merely asked a possible manual method Geller used to bend the key in that specific clip (and one satisfactory method was offered). This is like evidence supplied by the prosecution . I would also need the evidence supplied by the defense e.g. a surprising number of magicians (15? more?) claimed Geller was genuine.

Personally, to me, Geller always appeared a slick showman …. rather like most magicians/mentalists pretending to be psychic, they don’t resemble most psychic/ mediums approach (but they think they do). Geller might be the most famous claim of being ‘psychic’ in the past couple of decades but he is of little importance in parapsychology and psychical research. He certainly is not the typical ‘psychic’, one of the above posts implied psychics claim to bend metal …..

Laurie Eddie explained

……… “ Psychics weaken the spoons they use by repeated bending before their performance. After that, bending and breaking them takes very little effort. Knives are not designed to be bent and psychics don’t bend them. If psychic energy is involved why spoons and not knives?"

I would estimate about 1 in a 1000 ‘psychics’ claim to bend metal, the vast majority don’t, they claim purely mental intuition. Another common difference is if physical phenomena occurs,
, they do not claim they make it happen (like Geller does) they claim it is not under their human control or will. Magicians generally claims it is under their control too.

 

[joesixpack]

I can bend keys with my hands, and I'm not particularly strong. I can't do it with any subtlety though, but there again, I'm no prestadigitator (spell check,please). It's not really that difficult, but the real problem most people have is that they subconsciously don't want to ruin their keys (or flatware either, for that matter) so they don't apply as much force as they could.

 

[Palimpsest]

(It's prestidigitator, joesixpack.)

Well, an amateur magician friend of mine has solved that problem by only (lightly) bending the restaurant's spoons when we go out for lunch .

 

[Azrael 5]

Who needs to bend spoons,I can make a spoon turn 45 degrees on the table,without touching it!

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Open Mind,

So, when you referenced this:

The most quoted trial of Geller (Targ and Puthoff's), actually never confirmed or claimed he could bend metal , they did however claim Geller had ESP abilities and stood by their research.

For metal bending specifically, I think around mid 1990s .......

quote:
Professor Charles Crussard (Professor of Metallurgy, School of Mines, Paris and Scientific Director of Pecheney, France) 'Uri bent a strong heat-treated alloy bar held by myself and my assistant at each end. There was absolutely no pressure exerted by Uri while the bar was bending. All the controlled experiments I conducted with Uri Geller have been described in Sciences et Avenir. no. 345. pp. 1108-1113.

http://www.uri-geller.com/geller-effect/tge18.htm

what point exactly were you making about Geller? Was it that he CAN bend metal by merely touching it?

 

[kookbreaker]

Re: Re: Spoon bending

I've never spent much time on Uri Geller claims (far more interesting cases out there with far less showmanship IMO) but perhaps someone in here can tell me how Uri bends a key, a spoon is much easier to bend with hands/fingers. Bending a key with the fingers/ hands alone is actually very tough (I couldn't do it..... go try it )

So is he using some technique or tool to apply more leverage? Did he weaken it prior to program (in which case I'm not sure why he made two clear unnecessary gestures to bend it and cast needless doubt upon his trick). Or if he really is just bending it with only his fingers there and then, was he just very lucky to be given a softer metal key? Pity we don't see a bit earlier footage.

A little of both. Some keys are weak enough to bend by hand. If Geller needs help what he may do is make some excuse like the one he tried with Richard Feynmann.

http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/fey2.htm

There, Geller declared that the bending "works better under water" and dashed into the bathroom run put the key under the tap. Feynmann speculates that maybe Geller planned to bend it in the pipe.

In another account, related to Cecil Adams of the Straigth Dope,

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_062.html

Cecil points out that by going outside Geller could place the key in a crack in the sidewalk to break it.

 

[alfaniner]

I tried bending an old spare key by hand and it was incredibly difficult. My hands are pretty strong (20+ years of martial arts, breaking boards and bricks -- no tricks involved there, just practice and conditioning), so I thought it would be easy.

However, the key channel was a semi-circular concave shape, where most modern keys have simply small line channels. That may have made it a lot stronger (and maybe they made much stronger keys in the 50's, too!).

I'm sure that with as much experience as Uri has, he can instantly identify a key and what he has to do to get it to bend that particular one, by physical means, of course.

 

[Nihilanth]

Yeah, I think you're right, some keys are just easier to bend. Looking through my keys now (not many, I just moved, GIVE ME TIME, PEOPLE!) there's one I could probably bend. It's my house key. Hold on...

...yeah, I bent it.
Aw....dammit...