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Split thread: Does the Bible speak out against slavery?

DOC

Philosopher
D
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,959
joobz said:
So, you still can't find a passage which says god is against slavery?
Click to expand...

Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death."

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond (slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The above passage says freeman and slaves are "equal" in Christ eyes.

1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond (slaves) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Once again slaves are considered equal to freeman before God's eyes.

1 Corinthians 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant.


Slaves are freeman in God's eyes.

Also this site does a good job covering the subject of slavery during Biblical times:

"First, we must recognize that the Bible does not say God supports slavery. In fact, the slavery described in the Old Testament was quite different from the kind of slavery we think of today - in which people are captured and sold as slaves. According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed:

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

So, obviously, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations. Unlike our modern government welfare programs, there was no safety-net for ancient Middle Easterners who could not provide a living for themselves. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.

From the site: Does God approve Slavery According to the Bible?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html
 
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DOC said:
Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death."
Click to expand...

That's an injunction against kidnapping not salvery .

DOC said:
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond (slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The above passage says freeman and slaves are "equal" in Christ eyes.
Click to expand...

Again that is not an injunction against slavery.

DOC said:
1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond (slaves) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Once again slaves are considered equal to freeman before God's eye's.
Click to expand...

Again not an injunction against slavery.


DOC said:
1 Corinthians 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant.


Once again slaves are freeman in God's eyes.

...snip...
Click to expand...

Again not an injunction against slavery.
 
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All that says is that to Christ it doesnt matter if one is free or slave, anybodys soul can be saved. If he wanted to make a statement against slavery my advice would have been to make it a bit more obvious.
 
scratchy said:
All that says is that to Christ it doesnt matter if one is free or slave, anybodys soul can be saved. If he wanted to make a statement against slavery my advice would have been to make it a bit more obvious.
Click to expand...

Well He did say Love your neighbor as yourself, and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Basically that's a way of saying slavery is wrong without getting killed immediately by the Roman authorities.
 
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DOC, I'll see your puny 5 verses and raise you 44 (OT and NT):

Slavery In The Bible
  1. Leviticus 25:39
  2. Leviticus 25:40
  3. Leviticus 25:41
  4. Leviticus 25:42
  5. Leviticus 25:43
  6. Leviticus 25:44
  7. Leviticus 25:45
  8. Leviticus 25:46
  9. Exodus 21:2
  10. Exodus 21:3
  11. Exodus 21:4
  12. Exodus 21:5
  13. Exodus 21:6
  14. Deuteronomy 15:12
  15. Deuteronomy 15:13
  16. Deuteronomy 15:14
  17. Exodus 21:7
  18. Exodus 21:8
  19. Exodus 21:9
  20. Exodus 21:10
  21. Exodus 21:11
  22. Exodus 21:12
  23. Exodus 21:20
  24. Exodus 21:21
  25. Exodus 21:26
  26. Exodus 21:27
  27. Exodus 21:28
  28. Exodus 21:29
  29. Exodus 21:30
  30. Exodus 21:31
  31. Exodus 21:32
  32. 1 Peter 2:18
  33. Ephesians 6:5
  34. Ephesians 6:6
  35. Ephesians 6:7
  36. Ephesians 6:8
  37. Ephesians 6:9
  38. Titus 2:9
  39. Titus 2:10
  40. Colossians 3:22
  41. Colossians 3:23
  42. Colossians 3:24
  43. Colossians 3:25
  44. 1 Timothy 6:1
Your call......


Plus:

Biblical figures who kept slaves

Abraham
Boaz
Cornelius
Isaac
Philemon
Solomon
 
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Christians slaves were encouraged to obey their masters - even more so if the master was a Christian. The Christian religion did not question the underlying economic principles of slavery at all.

What it did do was object to charging interest on loans. The reason so many Jews were involved in banking in medieval Europe was that it was OK for them to lend with interest to Non-Jews (they couldn't do so to other Jews though). Part of the European dislike of Jews stems from the simple but necessary bending of God's rules. The entire Western capitalist system is now based on lending and interest and is in direct contravention of Biblical teaching. The early Christians would be horrified to find that far from condemning this practice the Church participates. Lending with interest is condemned far more times in the Bible than say homosexuality.
 
This says it all and it bewilders me that any female or person that considers slavery a bad thing would even open a bible or consider one of its religions knowing its content.

Sexual Activity with an Engaged Female Slave: A man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. The female slave would be whipped. There is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity.
Source
Click to expand...
 
H3LL said:
DOC, I'll see your puny 5 verses and raise you 44:

Slavery In The Bible
  1. Leviticus 25:39
  2. Leviticus 25:40
  3. Leviticus 25:41
  4. Leviticus 25:42
  5. Leviticus 25:43
  6. Leviticus 25:44
  7. Leviticus 25:45
  8. Leviticus 25:46
  9. Exodus 21:2
  10. Exodus 21:3
  11. Exodus 21:4
  12. Exodus 21:5
  13. Exodus 21:6
  14. Deuteronomy 15:12
  15. Deuteronomy 15:13
  16. Deuteronomy 15:14
  17. Exodus 21:7
  18. Exodus 21:8
  19. Exodus 21:9
  20. Exodus 21:10
  21. Exodus 21:11
  22. Exodus 21:12
  23. Exodus 21:20
  24. Exodus 21:21
  25. Exodus 21:26
  26. Exodus 21:27
  27. Exodus 21:28
  28. Exodus 21:29
  29. Exodus 21:30
  30. Exodus 21:31
  31. Exodus 21:32
  32. 1 Peter 2:18
  33. Ephesians 6:5
  34. Ephesians 6:6
  35. Ephesians 6:7
  36. Ephesians 6:8
  37. Ephesians 6:9
  38. Titus 2:9
  39. Titus 2:10
  40. Colossians 3:22
  41. Colossians 3:23
  42. Colossians 3:24
  43. Colossians 3:25
  44. 1 Timothy 6:1
Your call......


Plus:

Biblical figures who kept slaves

Abraham
Boaz
Cornelius
Isaac
Philemon
Solomon
Click to expand...


From the site Does God Approve of Slavery According to the Bible?
by Rich Deem

So, although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable - up to death of the offending party.1 Hebrews were commanded not to make their slave work on the Sabbath,2 slander a slave,3 have sex with another man's slave,4 or return an escaped slave.5 A Hebrew was not to enslave his fellow countryman, even if he owed him money, but was to have him work as a hired worker, and he was to be released in the year of jubilee (which occurred every seven years).6 In fact, the slave owner was encouraged to "pamper his slave".7
What the New Testament says about slavery

Since many of the early Christians were slaves to Romans,8 they were encouraged to become free if possible, but not worry about it if not possible.9

bolding put in by DOC

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html
 
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It is true that one could not rape another person's slave - but that is true in all slave owning cultures. Slaves are property, like a car. If I went out and saw someone mistreating my car I would be none too pleased. There are laws about that sort of thing. I can mistreat my car if I choose (although it would make no sense) and slave owners could also mistreat their slaves although not so much that they were unable to work as that would be foolish.
 
H3LL said:
DOC, I'll see your puny 5 verses and raise you 44:

Slavery In The Bible
  1. Leviticus 25:39
  2. Leviticus 25:40
  3. Leviticus 25:41
  4. Leviticus 25:42
  5. Leviticus 25:43
  6. Leviticus 25:44
  7. Leviticus 25:45
  8. Leviticus 25:46
  9. Exodus 21:2
  10. Exodus 21:3
  11. Exodus 21:4
  12. Exodus 21:5
  13. Exodus 21:6
  14. Deuteronomy 15:12
  15. Deuteronomy 15:13
  16. Deuteronomy 15:14
  17. Exodus 21:7
  18. Exodus 21:8
  19. Exodus 21:9
  20. Exodus 21:10
  21. Exodus 21:11
  22. Exodus 21:12
  23. Exodus 21:20
  24. Exodus 21:21
  25. Exodus 21:26
  26. Exodus 21:27
  27. Exodus 21:28
  28. Exodus 21:29
  29. Exodus 21:30
  30. Exodus 21:31
  31. Exodus 21:32
  32. 1 Peter 2:18
  33. Ephesians 6:5
  34. Ephesians 6:6
  35. Ephesians 6:7
  36. Ephesians 6:8
  37. Ephesians 6:9
  38. Titus 2:9
  39. Titus 2:10
  40. Colossians 3:22
  41. Colossians 3:23
  42. Colossians 3:24
  43. Colossians 3:25
  44. 1 Timothy 6:1
Your call......


Plus:

Biblical figures who kept slaves

Abraham
Boaz
Cornelius
Isaac
Philemon
Solomon
Click to expand...



From the site Does God Approve of Slavery According to the Bible?
by Rich Deem

So, although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable - up to death of the offending party.1 Hebrews were commanded not to make their slave work on the Sabbath,2 slander a slave,3 have sex with another man's slave,4 or return an escaped slave.5 A Hebrew was not to enslave his fellow countryman, even if he owed him money, but was to have him work as a hired worker, and he was to be released in the year of jubilee (which occurred every seven years).6 In fact, the slave owner was encouraged to "pamper his slave".7
What the New Testament says about slavery

Since many of the early Christians were slaves to Romans,8 they were encouraged to become free if possible, but not worry about it if not possible.9

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html
 
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How the ***** do you equate how to care for slaves (the modern equivalent of good car maintenance) with speaking out against slavery?

It's like saying Haynes are anti-car.

Also you are one very sick puppy if you consider rape of un-engaged female slaves to be in no way "injuring" them.

DOC you are on a lose, lose, lose with this one.

Slavery was a fact of life in the bronze age. How do bronze age guides, in your words, aimed at illiterate herdsmen, have any relevance in the 21st century?
 
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Old Testament encourages Pampering of slaves

He who pampers his slave from childhood Will in the end find him to be a son. (Proverbs 29:21) New American Standard Bible


He that delicately bringeth up his servant from a child shall have him become [his] son at the length. (Proverbs 29:21) KJV
 
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DOC said:
He who pampers his slave from childhood will in the end find him to be a son. (Proverbs 29:21)
Click to expand...

That verse is telling you that treating your property well is a good ide - just like say a guide to cars will tell you regular maintenance will mean your car will last longer!

Again not an injuction against slvaery.

DOC said:
He that delicately bringeth up his servant from a child shall have him become [his] son at the length. (Proverbs 29:21) KJV
Click to expand...

That is about servants not a slaves. However even if we allow that in this instance servant means the same as slave then as I said above it is only saying that to get the best out of your property you need to treat it well.
 
DOC said:
From the site Does God Approve of Slavery According to the Bible?
by Rich Deem

So, although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable - up to death of the offending party.
Click to expand...

DOC, you gave this thread the title: Does God speak out against slavery in the Bible?

Are you prepared to give an answer to your question - yes or no?

.. . . . . . . .
ETA: I have heard other forum members give very detailed answers to this question, but I want to hear DOC's answer.

Also a follow up question. Is the type of slavery described in the Bible so mild that we should consider making it law in the United States?

MORE ETA: When you get a chance would you answer this question?
 
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Ladewig said:
DOC, you gave this thread the title: Does God speak out against slavery in the Bible?

Are you prepared to give an answer to your question - yes or no?

.. . . . . . . .
Click to expand...

Well actually I was responding to someone who brought the topic of slavery into another thread. This thread was spinned off by someone else, so it is not really my question, but in answer to the question.

Yes God does speak out against slavery indirectly

when Jesus says this in Luke 6 31

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

aka "The Golden Rule" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That infers Slavery is wrong according to God.

Also when Jesus says "Love your neighbor as yourself", and "love your enemies" this naturally infers slavery is wrong.

Maybe this is why Martin Luther King, who was a Christian pastor and a graduate of seminary school helped form the civil rights group the "Southern Christian Leadership Conference". He was also the first president of this civil rights organization. Obviously this mostly black civil rights organization had no problem with Christianity and slavery or they never would have voluntarily put the word Christian in the title of the well known civil rights organization.
 
DOC said:
The above passage says freeman and slaves are "equal" in Christ eyes.
Click to expand...

So God couldn't care less if there's slavery.

1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond (slaves) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Click to expand...

Just like slaves and freemen are equal before God's eyes, so are Jews (destined for hell) and Gentiles (destined for heaven).

"First, we must recognize that the Bible does not say God supports slavery.
Click to expand...

So slavery was bad.

In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.
Click to expand...

So slavery was good.

Anyone want to be my slave? I promise to treat you biblically.
 
DOC said:
Well actually I was responding to someone who brought the topic of slavery into another thread. This thread was spinned off by someone else, so it is not really my question, but in answer to the question.

Yes God does speak out against slavery indirectly

when Jesus says this in Luke 6 31

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

aka "The Golden Rule" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That infers Slavery is wrong according to God.

Also when Jesus says "Love your neighbor as yourself", and "love your enemies" this naturally infers slavery is wrong.

Maybe this is why Martin Luther King, who was a Christian pastor and a graduate of seminary school helped form the civil rights group the "Southern Christian Leadership Conference". He was also the first president of this civil rights organization. Obviously this mostly black civil rights organization had no problem with Christianity and slavery or they never would have voluntarily put the word Christian in the title of the well known civil rights organization.
Click to expand...

Yup, that nicely shows the Rorschach nature of the Bible.

Now, find a passage that says "Thou shall not take slaves". I bet you can't.
 
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kmortis said:
Yup, that nicely shows the Rorschach nature of the Bible.

Now, find a passage that says "Thou shall not take slaves". I bet you can't.
Click to expand...

Does show it is adaptable tho...

Should I start a thread "Is charging interest scriptural"?
 
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