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[Split Thread] Do you have a soul?

Ixion

Inquiring Mind
Ixion
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
2,431
Shadow said:
Yup, I hope I have a soul but I don't count on it.
A soul, unlike religion, is much harder to prove or disprove. The dynamics of its working may not be available to science if it was there.
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I was thinking about this post from Shadow's thread about whether you would pray if you were dying, and I wanted to address a new topic.

Let's suppose, completely hypothetically, that there is something called a 'soul'. It can be identified and defined by modern science and is found in connection with all living things, including bacteria. However, we cannot isolate a 'soul' from the body and we cannot define its function. We do not know if it must stay connected with the body, if it leaves when the body dies, or if it can inhabit a new body. I know this is sounding woo-ish, but the soul thing is not really the topic I wish to discuss. The discussion I want is: if there is such a thing as a soul, would there be a need for a deity or deities?
 
No, not as such. The fact that religious beliefs would in such a situation have predicted a otherwise highly unexpected scientific discovery would be in their favour, however. If the discovered soul was similar to the soul described by some religions, it would make me more inclined to believe that there was also a God or Gods similar to the ones described by those religions.
 
I never said there was a need for a soul or that I believed in souls. This is merely a hypothetical.
 
This actually is wrapped up in the theological definition of a 'revelation'. Which is technically something revealed by God directly to a person's soul (or spirit, depending on what you're doing with definitions there). So in theology, a revelation not only proves to the revealed that God exists, but at the same time proves they have a soul.
 
If souls, were real-- would you need gods?

I don't think so. I think the soul is the thing that seems true... that people want to be true so that they can ward of fear of death. And then religions hijack that with the idea of an eternal soul... that can suffer forever... but, handily, it can also experience eternal bliss.

All you need to do is give your faith, allegiance, money, and obedience to representative "x" who speaks for the mighty "maker of souls"--

The notion of a soul--which everyone wants to be true... seems as real as the earth seemed flat to those who didn't know a better explanation, but this makes them so ripe for memes that can be attached to that pseudo-knowledge...

I think gods need people to believe in souls... but people also believe in souls who don't believe in gods. I don't believe consciousness can exist absent a material brain. We have no reason to posit that it can. And even if it could-- we appear to have no means of distinguishing ghosts from demons from gods from thetans.
 
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Ixion said:
...snip... The discussion I want is: if there is such a thing as a soul, would there be a need for a deity or deities?
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No - just like the existence of rocks does not need a deity.

Also the soul that you describe is not a soul that I think any actual religion describes - so why would you even call it a soul?
 
And even if it could-- we appear to have no means of distinguishing ghosts from demons from gods from thetans.

We do have the means.
So that's misleading....
 
Darat said:
Also the soul that you describe is not a soul that I think any actual religion describes - so why would you even call it a soul?
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You are correct. That is why I first used apostrophes - 'soul'

I didn't want to possibly single out any religion if the topic came up.
 
There's really no reason to believe that if the soul really existed, we'd have no means of detecting or proving it scientifically. The soul is supposedly where all our thoughts, consciousness, memories, and sense of morality lie, and such things are known to have physical causes within the mechanisms of the brain, so it stands to reason that the soul can interact with matter. Thusly since the soul can interact with matter, it should leave some kind of detectable sign or imprint that we can pick up. Hell, we can detect neutrinos, for cryin' out loud, therefore it should be a simple matter to detect souls if they exist.
 
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The idea of a so-called soul explains nothing, the need of one for some people only goes to show how little these people know.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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Gravity comes to mind and the song.
It's funny how we really can't quite figure that one out, darn.

What it does is quite profound.
 
Oh I think we have a pretty good grasp on gravity... we even know it's speed and acceleration, have you heard? We know how it occurs and all sorts of things about it... just like we know about evolution. And the facts allow us to fill in more facts and to build things like airplanes.

Gravity exists whether you believe in it or not. Your beliefs don't have that quality it seems.
 
articulett said:
Oh I think we have a pretty good grasp on gravity... we even know it's speed and acceleration, have you heard? We know how it occurs and all sorts of things about it... just like we know about evolution. And the facts allow us to fill in more facts and to build things like airplanes.

Gravity exists whether you believe in it or not. Your beliefs don't have that quality it seems.
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Indeed. The only thing we don't have yet is the carrier particle, but gravity does not live or die by that, as it's already well proven to exist.
 
edge said:
Gravity comes to mind and the song.
It's funny how we really can't quite figure that one out, darn.

What it does is quite profound.
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It must be a MIRACLE that we know how to get our satellites into orbit, and we can send others off to the planets and now beyond.

Golly

Paul


:) :) :)

Read edge, there are many good books on gravity, there is nothing in the bible about it.
 
If my "soul" is my consciousness, then I would hope it survives after death.

If my "soul" isn't my consciousness, then I don't care what happens to it.

Therefore, scientists finding definite "soul" evidence, but having no inkling what it is or its purpose is for, makes me question how they know it's a "soul", and not a backup appendix...
 
Provide a specific definition of "soul" and then we can start to have some semblance of a useful conversation on this point.
 
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