Sources that address Flight 93 being "shot down"

chippy

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Nov 24, 2006
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Hey guys - I'm doing some research on Flight 93, and while I have found conclusive evidence that the plane did crash in Shanksville, I'm having a hard time trying to find evidence that proves it was merely the act of terrorists and didn't involve a shoot-down. Obviously there are a number of flaws in logic that go along with Flight 93 being shot down...if the government did so, they wouldn't need to cover it up, considering what had already had happened on 9/11. Nobody would have blamed them. And if they simply meant to down the plane so that they could milk the "hero" story out of it, why wouldn't they have just crashed it by remote like they allegedly did with the other flights?

Nevertheless, there is evidence of debris found in locations far away from the crash site, and it doesn't seem plausible that it could have travelled from the crash site to other locations miles away.

Do you have any good sources or any good info to address this?
 
Ask Killtown :p

ETA: As far as I know, NO debris was 'miles away' from the crash site. But I don't have a mind for details, so cannot provide you with a source. The point, however, was addressed in respone to one of my earlier posts, by Gravy I think. I'll try to dig it up.
 
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Chippy, the "8-mile debris field" thing is a myth. The only debris found far from the crash site was very lightweight paper and bits of fabric. The FDR indicates that the plane's systems were operating normally when it hit the ground at 580 mph (as fast as a bullet from a .45 handgun). The FBI tested the wreckage for explosives residue and found none.

These links may be helpful. I compiled them a while ago, so some may be broken, but most should work.

At Shanksville, which was by far the smallest of the three crash scenes, over 1,100 people from 74 agencies and organizations were on the scene.

On 9/11 alone, these included:

• 8 Police Departments
• 7 EMS Services
• 8 Fire Departments
• 10 Emergency Management Agencies
• NTSB
• ATF
• FBI
• CISM
• Red Cross
• United Airlines

Some information from, and about, agencies that were on the scene.
http://tinyurl.com/kuv73
http://tinyurl.com/efj56
http://tinyurl.com/f83mb
http://tinyurl.com/k3jhx
http://tinyurl.com/jx3u7

ETA: I notice that NONE of the above 5 links are working. The internet is great, but sometimes it's a pain in the tuchas. These all worked two months ago. I reference the first link several times here. It's supposed to be to an EPA pdf report with lots of photos that most people haven't seen. I'll be glad to email it to you if you wish. I had sent our good friend Killtown that link and he's got several of the photos (and many others of the flight 93 scene) here: http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/gallery.html

Then there's the fact that most of the plane was recovered, examined for signs of explosives by the FBI, and turned over to United Airlines (except for the black boxes, which went to the NTSB).
http://tinyurl.com/hmbjm
http://tinyurl.com/z7ume

Remains from every victim were recovered and positively identified.
http://tinyurl.com/4hpaq

Have further questions about victim ID? Why not ask Paul Sledzik, who led the Flight 93 Disaster Mortuary Team, or Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, who was Miller's chief scientific advisor?
http://tinyurl.com/mzkp6

The personal effects of most victims were recovered and returned to the families.
http://tinyurl.com/erazm

The phone calls made from the plane:
http://tinyurl.com/j4zjv
http://tinyurl.com/h4u44

Photo of Airfone from flight 93 crash scene
http://tinyurl.com/qnd8l

The Air Traffic Control recordings and accounts.
http://tinyurl.com/ncwf9
http://tinyurl.com/qg3ht

The Cockpit Voice Recorder recording transcript: http://tinyurl.com/rxe8a
Photo of CVR: http://tinyurl.com/lulmt

The Flight Data Recorder recording.
http://tinyurl.com/myayp
Photo of FDR: http://tinyurl.com/osa7m

The NORAD recordings.
http://tinyurl.com/rc2dn

The numerous witnesses on the ground (these are just a few accounts.)

"There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud."
http://tinyurl.com/m347n

Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.

Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.

"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning.
http://tinyurl.com/fa75e

"I just watched with my mouth open as this yellow mushroom cloud rose up just like an atomic bomb over the hill where I like to go hunting," said 72- year-old John Walsh. [Say, maybe it was an A-Bomb!]

Barefoot and in his bathrobe, he drove up the dirt road to rescue anyone he could find. There would be nothing he could do.

Debris, including photographs and other papers that survived the fireball, was strewn over a wide area. Residents have spent days collecting it.
http://tinyurl.com/oapxx

"When the plane hit, it sounded like something just fell on the roof. Everybody sort of panicked," she said. "I went to the window and saw all this smoke coming up and I just pointed and screamed."
http://tinyurl.com/rl5qc

Charles Sturtz, 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters.
http://tinyurl.com/rl5qc

Bob Blair was completing a routine drive to Shade Creek just after 10 a.m. Tuesday, when he saw a huge silver plane fly past him just above the treetops and crash into the woods along Lambertsville Road.
Blair, of Stoystown, a driver with Jim Barron Trucking of Somerset, was traveling in a coal truck along with Doug Miller of Somerset, when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground and then explode on the outskirts of Lambertsville.

“I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair.
http://tinyurl.com/guct4

The 300 volunteers who collected debris and remains in the final sweep three weeks after the crash.
http://tinyurl.com/kuv73

Photos of the crash scene, debris, and personal effects.
http://tinyurl.com/kuv73
http://tinyurl.com/p7zzn
http://tinyurl.com/h7ghq
http://911myths.com/html/flight_93_photos.html
http://tinyurl.com/qd4oo
http://tinyurl.com/r5m8t
http://tinyurl.com/m2tnf
http://tinyurl.com/nfy5f
Slideshow of site and debris: http://tinyurl.com/hfqan

Hijacker identification from the crash scene:
http://tinyurl.com/ppknu
http://tinyurl.com/qt3an
http://tinyurl.com/om544
http://tinyurl.com/logjb
http://tinyurl.com/n9zkl
http://tinyurl.com/mrw64

Val McClatchey's photo (certified as authentic by the FBI's examination of her camera's memory card.)
http://tinyurl.com/r577d

The Falcon 20 crew's report.
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp

The C-130 crew's report
http://tinyurl.com/mg4xh

40 Lives, One Destiny.
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011028flt93mainstoryp7.asp

*****

Some contact information for flight 93 crash scene responders.

Shanksville Volunteer Fire Co
Shanksville, PA 15560
(814) 267-4737
Terry Schaffer, Fire Chief
Rick King, Assistant Chief

Somerset County Coroner's Office
555 Tayman Avenue, Somerset, PA 15501
(814) 445-6900
Wallace Miller, Coroner

Somerset County Emergency Services
100 East Union Street, Somerset, PA 15501
(814) 445-1515

WESTMORELAND COUNTY
DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
12 Court House Square
Greensburg, PA 15601
724-600-7300

Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
Harrisburg, PA 17101
(717) 651-2001

Paul Sledzik, Curator Disaster Mortuary Team Main
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
(He led flight 93 DMORT investigation)
202-782-2204 sledzik@email.afip.osd.mil

Disaster Mortuary Team Main office: 1-800-USA-NDMS, ext. 205
DMORT Region 3 office (includes Pennsylvania) 410-676-4600

Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat
Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department
Mercyhurst College
501 E. 38th St.
Erie, PA 16546
dirkmaat@mercyhurst.edu
(814) 824-2105
 
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Damn dude, that's a lot more than I expected! You really are amazing. Thank you so much!
 
Things to note about Gravy:

1. He compiled and edited that post in no more than 23 minutes.

2. Every item he lists is linked to an impeccable source.

3. I'm willing to bet that he had most of the information in his head, and just linked to the sources for Chippy's benefit.

This is the guy the Twoofers want to debate. The debate will be an embarrassment of Biblical proportions for them.
 
To be fair I've seen this exact post from Gravy before so I imagine it's a copy and past job... ;) (except for the non-working link comment).

Gravy has already covered it, but my own brief response would be that the UA93 FDR and NEADS (NORAD) recordings refute a UA93 shoot down on their own - FDR indicates aircraft was not shot down, NEADS recordings indicate NORAD didn't know about UA93 until 4 minutes after it crashed.

In addition, the "debris field" is a red herring because, aside from the fact that only very light debris landed further afield, no comparison is made to other crashes.

Other flights that HAVE broken up in mid air spread debris over an area of hundreds of miles, not 8. Pan Am Flight 103 had a debris field of 845 sq mi.

-Gumboot
 

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