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Some Thoughts on Randi and His Challenge

amherst

Thinker
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
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198
When it comes to Randi's million dollars, skeptics and believers have one thing in common. Both usually agree that it is unwinnable. Skeptics think this is because paranormal phenomenon do not exist, believers think it is because Randi's challenge is flawed and biased. In this post I will attempt to illuminate the believers assumptions with some of my own observations.

Randi is a talented magician who also has considerable rhetorical skills. He is probably the worlds most well known debunker of the paranormal. His books, writings, and lectures have not only attempted to show that the paranormal doesn't exist, but have derided its proponents with a venom which many of the "softer" skeptics lack. The anger and derision which pervades his work has made for enjoyable reading and has surely increased Randi's popularity. Yet to many this angry zeal to debunk seems to have, among other things, caused the integrity of his work to suffer. What follows are a few examples culled from various sources:

"It is well known that the two SRI physicists issued a film which shows Geller successfully guessing the uppermost face of a die after it had been shaken in a closed box. Their Nature report describes these tests and Geller's phenomenal accuracy. The critical film was taken by Zev Pressman (an SRI staff photographer) and it shows Geller correctly making a guess. Randi claims that Targ and Puthoff lied when they stated that this film was taken during the actual tests. He further asserts that the film was a re-enactment. Basing his charges on information he claims came from Pressman himself, Randi maintains that the film was taken after the photographer had gone home and was merely staged. 'Pressman revealed that he was told Geller's eight successful throws [my emphasis] were done after he (Pressman) had gone home for the day', writes Randi, 'and that this film was a re-enactment of that supposed miracle'.
Dr Puthoff was thoroughly disgusted when I read this section of FlimFlam! to him. 'Not one millimeter of that film was a re-enactment' he told me. He also claimed that he had even procured an affidavit from Pressman certifying that the footage was filmed by him during the actual SRI tests. Dr Puthoff supplied me with this affidavit and urged me to get in touch with Mr Pressman, which is exactly what I did.
I spoke directly with Mr Pressman on 5 January 1981 and he was quite interested when I told him about Randi's book. He denied that he had spoken to the magician. When I read him the section of Randi's book dealing with his alleged 'expose' of the Targ-Puthoff film, he became very vexed. He firmly backed up the authenticity of the film, told me how he had taken it on the spot, and labelled Randi's allegation as a total fabrication. (His own descriptive language was a little more colorful!)
So just where did Randi come up with this nonsense about the SRI's Geller film? Randi does not specifically state that he personally spoke to Pressman, although he vaguely implies it. It seems instead that he procured this piece of misinformation from another SRI source, who was perhaps honestly mistaken about the film. Randi then repeated the error, never checked out his source, and used the error to make wild accusations against the SRI experimenters. The truly hilarious thing about this mess is that no film showing Geller making eight hits in a row was ever shot! Pressman only filmed one experiment, in which Geller is seen 'passing' - although guessing correctly - on the test. So Randi wasn't even able to describe the SRI film correctly, and he certainly never saw it."--- D.Scott Rogo Psychic Breakthroughs Today

"The January 2000 issue of Dog World magazine included an article on a possible sixth sense in dogs, which discussed some of my research. In this article Randi was quoted as saying that in relation to canine ESP, "We at the JREF [James Randi Educational Foundation] have tested these claims. They fail." No details were given of these tests.

I emailed James Randi to ask for details of this JREF research. He did not reply. He ignored a second request for information too.

I then asked members of the JREF Scientific Advisory Board to help me find out more about this claim. They did indeed help by advising Randi to reply. In an email sent on Februaury 6, 2000 he told me that the tests he referred to were not done at the JREF, but took place "years ago" and were "informal". They involved two dogs belonging to a friend of his that he observed over a two-week period. All records had been lost. He wrote: "I overstated my case for doubting the reality of dog ESP based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so."

Randi also claimed to have debunked one of my experiments with the dog Jaytee, a part of which was shown on television. Jaytee went to the window to wait for his owner when she set off to come home, but did not do so before she set off. In Dog World, Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see that the dog responded to every car that drove by, and to every person who walked by." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape."---Rupert Sheldrake www.sheldrake.org

"has to many errors to be recommended."----Susan Blackmore in her review of Randi's book The Supernatural A-Z

Apart from Randi's inaccuracies, some think he has also shown questionable ethics in his work. For instance, in the early 80's Randi hired two young magicians to pose as psychics and infiltrate a parapsychology laboratory. The mission was called Project Alpha. The two young men convinced some nonprofessional parapsychologists that they had genuine ability. However, many in the field were adamantly skeptical of the two and no work done with them ever appeared in any parapsychological journal. Despite this, Randi held a large contemptuous press conference about his "sociology experiment". In Parapsychology The Controversial Science, Richard Broughton says that "Afterwards some science commentators, notably William Broad of The New York Times, observed that had Randi been a psychologist conducting that experiment, his hoax would probably have landed him in trouble with the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association."

Because of these and other concerns, many people feel justifiably skeptical of Randi's ability to design an objective scientific test. If a parapsychologist had the same record of misstatements and deceit no skeptic would take any experiments that person was involved in seriously. One must also keep in mind that the validity of Randi's life's work is inextricably intertwined with the outcome of every challenge. If the subject's fail his challenge, Randi's work remains strong and validated in the eyes of the public as well as his own. Yet if just one person manages to somehow win the prize, the majority of Randi's hard work, beliefs, and ideas become invalid and he will be seen as ignorant of what he is supposed to be wise about. Needless to say, the effect would be devastating. Because of this, it seems to many that Randi has designed a rather clever testing system which enables him to "always have an out".

The challenge does not consist of just one pass or fail test. The rules state that:

"In all cases, applicant will be required to perform the preliminary test either before an appointed representative, if distance and time dictate that need, or in a location where a member of the JREF staff can attend. This preliminary test is to determine if the applicant is likely to perform as promised during a formal test. To date, no applicant has passed the preliminary test, and this has eliminated the need for formal testing in those cases"


Although the purpose of this preliminary test may seem legitimate to some, it enables Randi to have incredible control over each situation. If he is ever confronted by someone who succeeds in the preliminary test, there seems to be no reason why he can't just dismiss it because it wasn't the "formal" test and give various reasons for why the claimant must be preliminarily tested again (the recent yellow bamboo case is something which is sure to meet this fate). Then after a long wait, if Randi isn't completely confident he knows how the claimant succeeded, he can simply use his skilled rhetoric to distort and deride the person involved, keeping him from ever taking another preliminary test let alone a "formal" one. It seems that Randi has crafted a very secure safety net for himself, and any serious claimant should have cause for concern.

It is also relevant here to note that Randi has no prior protocols set up for testing the claimants. This works for his favor in a couple of ways. First, since there are no previously designed experiments, unlike in real science, there is nothing for anyone to judge or criticize. Any design flaws, which could be detrimental to paranormal effects, would most likely be unnoticed by a claimant with no scientific background. If parapsychologists were allowed to criticize and help design Randi's experiments, just like skeptics are encouraged to do for parapsychology, the challenge would be much more valid.

Another way the lack of prior protocols works in Randi's favor is that it gives him the ability to avoid running any experiment who's results he might not be able to explain. For instance, lets say a parapsychologist decides he's tired of Randi and is going to apply for the challenge. Lets also say that he wants to run a long series of ganzfeld experiments. What if Randi isn't completely confident that he can find flaws in the experiment which will account for the possible positive results? Since both the claimant and Randi have to agree on the protocol, Randi can simply say he doesn't agree with the proposed test(the rules don't say he has to have a good reason for dismissing it). Now if the parapsychologist cries foul, there's nothing he can do about it, and Randi can go deride and smear him because he refused the challenge.

Another thing which should cause worry for potential claimants is the fact that skeptics, which Randi is associated with, are to be the judge and jury of his tests. It is needless to say that many of these people have just as much vested interest as Randi does in seeing that each claim fails.


Finally, it is curious that Randi thinks himself such an expert at designing scientific experiments in the first place. The late Charles Honorton (pioneer of the ganzfeld experiments) in his essay Rhetoric Over Substance: The Impoverished State Of Skepticism, had this to say about Randi's competence in these matters: "...Randi's skill as a magician is well known; but despite well publicized claims to methodological expertise, his ability to design scientifically adequate psi experiments is not at all apparent from an examination of his public efforts. Serious methodological weaknesses and statistical errors occur, for example, in his book on testing ESP and in his televised tests of psychics (e.g. Morris, 1992: Rao, 1984)."

For over 2,500 sessions and methodological refinements which have met the criteria of parapsychologys most sophisticated critic, Ray Hyman, the ganzfeld experiments have sustained a hit rate 8.2% higher than the 25% expected by chance alone. The odds against chance of this happening are a million billion to one. If Randi thinks he can design a better experiment than Hyman can, then he is doing a great disservice to his field as well as to parapsychology by keeping quiet about it.

amherst
 
amherst said:
Another thing which should cause worry for potential claimants is the fact that skeptics, which Randi is associated with, are to be the judge and jury of his tests. It is needless to say that many of these people have just as much vested interest as Randi does in seeing that each claim fails.
No Randi doesn't judge the experiment most be designed in such a way that no judging is necessary
amherst said:

For over 2,500 sessions and methodological refinements which have met the criteria of parapsychologys most sophisticated critic, Ray Hyman, the ganzfeld experiments have sustained a hit rate 8.2% higher than the 25% expected by chance alone. The odds against chance of this happening are a million billion to one. If Randi thinks he can design a better experiment than Hyman can, then he is doing a great disservice to his field as well as to parapsychology by keeping quiet about it.
Are you refering to the AutoGanzfeld experiments? They didn't met Raymans criterias:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9603/claims.html
"Moreover, these experiments were said to have been conducted according the criteria set out by Honorton and me. This indeed seemed to be the case with the strange exception of the procedure for randomizing targets at presentation and judging. Even in writing our joint paper, Honorton argued with me that careful randomization was not necessary in the ganzfeld experiments because each subject appears only once. I disagreed with Honorton, but even by his own reasoning, randomization is not as important if you believe that the subject is the sole source of the final judgment. But this was blatantly not the case in the autoganzfeld experiments. The experimenter, who was not so well shielded from the sender as the subject, interacted with the subject during the judging process. Indeed, during half of the trials the experimenter deliberately prompted the subject during the judging procedure. This means that the judgments from trial to trial were not strictly independent."
 
Same old same old. But there is no judging. And the tests are agreed with the contestants beforehand. The bottom line is, if the claimants had the powers they say they have, they would win the prize. Easily. If they don't have the powers they say they have, they find it easier to whine about Randi the way you just did. (Yawn.)
 
amherst said:
"It is well known that the two SRI physicists issued a film which shows Geller successfully guessing the uppermost face of a die after it had been shaken in a closed box. Their Nature report describes these tests and Geller's phenomenal accuracy. The critical film was taken by Zev Pressman (an SRI staff photographer) and it shows Geller correctly making a guess. Randi claims that Targ and Puthoff lied when they stated that this film was taken during the actual tests. He further asserts that the film was a re-enactment. Basing his charges on information he claims came from Pressman himself, Randi maintains that the film was taken after the photographer had gone home and was merely staged. 'Pressman revealed that he was told Geller's eight successful throws [my emphasis] were done after he (Pressman) had gone home for the day', writes Randi, 'and that this film was a re-enactment of that supposed miracle'.
Dr Puthoff was thoroughly disgusted when I read this section of FlimFlam! to him. 'Not one millimeter of that film was a re-enactment' he told me. He also claimed that he had even procured an affidavit from Pressman certifying that the footage was filmed by him during the actual SRI tests. Dr Puthoff supplied me with this affidavit and urged me to get in touch with Mr Pressman, which is exactly what I did.
I spoke directly with Mr Pressman on 5 January 1981 and he was quite interested when I told him about Randi's book. He denied that he had spoken to the magician. When I read him the section of Randi's book dealing with his alleged 'expose' of the Targ-Puthoff film, he became very vexed. He firmly backed up the authenticity of the film, told me how he had taken it on the spot, and labelled Randi's allegation as a total fabrication. (His own descriptive language was a little more colorful!)
So just where did Randi come up with this nonsense about the SRI's Geller film? Randi does not specifically state that he personally spoke to Pressman, although he vaguely implies it. It seems instead that he procured this piece of misinformation from another SRI source, who was perhaps honestly mistaken about the film. Randi then repeated the error, never checked out his source, and used the error to make wild accusations against the SRI experimenters. The truly hilarious thing about this mess is that no film showing Geller making eight hits in a row was ever shot! Pressman only filmed one experiment, in which Geller is seen 'passing' - although guessing correctly - on the test. So Randi wasn't even able to describe the SRI film correctly, and he certainly never saw it."--- D.Scott Rogo Psychic Breakthroughs Today

I find this amusing that somehow it is Randi's fault for speculating about a film that Puthoff claimed existed and was shot Pressmen. Certainly Pressman's denial never mentioned there was no film. It was only later after much undeserved indignation that Puthoff admitted there was no film. Why is Randi the villain here? He speculated based on evidence given to him. Puthoff and Pressman decieved.

Apart from Randi's inaccuracies, some think he has also shown questionable ethics in his work. For instance, in the early 80's Randi hired two young magicians to pose as psychics and infiltrate a parapsychology laboratory. The mission was called Project Alpha. The two young men convinced some nonprofessional parapsychologists that they had genuine ability. However, many in the field were adamantly skeptical of the two and no work done with them ever appeared in any parapsychological journal. Despite this, Randi held a large contemptuous press conference about his "sociology experiment". In Parapsychology The Controversial Science, Richard Broughton says that "Afterwards some science commentators, notably William Broad of The New York Times, observed that had Randi been a psychologist conducting that experiment, his hoax would probably have landed him in trouble with the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association."

Others felt that Randi's little project was the slap in the face that parapsychology needed to realise that it had to do some work. After this event Randi actually met with a few parapsycholgists and even soften his view. He mentioned this in a commentary a few months back.

Quite frankly, I have few qualms about breaking up an overpriced spoon-bending party. I certainly feel it doesn't qualify as unethical.

The other claims only tell part of the story.
 
RichardR said:
Same old same old. But there is no judging. And the tests are agreed with the contestants beforehand. The bottom line is, if the claimants had the powers they say they have, they would win the prize. Easily. If they don't have the powers they say they have, they find it easier to whine about Randi the way you just did. (Yawn.)

Although there is no judging of whether or not something occurred or didn't, there is a judging (if the claimant succeeds) over whether the phenomenon was fraudulently produced or not. In the yellow bamboo commentary, Randi made it clear that in his judgement the effect was fraudulently produced, probably by a stun gun. Because Randi has judged the effect to be fraudulent, even though the test succeeded, Randi will not let the bamboo people advance to the "formal" testing phase. This obviously goes against the "if you do what we agree upon you pass" criteria. Ofcourse the test has been judged. Why shouldn't I assume that every test which succeedes will be? If Randi played by his rules, then the bamboo people would be the first ever accepted for the formal test, Since Randi doesn't have to play by any rules, I doubt that his skeptical colleagues who run the tests will either.

amherst
 
Why should they go for the formal test they havn't passed the pilimery test yet (hint what happen was not a JREf pliminery test).
 
In Randi's october 3rd commentary he wrote: "No, YB did not pass the JREF preliminary test. There are many reasons for their failure: First, no continuous videotape record was made, as I'd clearly required. Without that, there is only evidence that Mr. Tri fell down, but no indication of how or why. Second, Joko did not walk up to Serengen and "gently tap him with a piece of bamboo," as I'd specified, and YB had agreed to, but charged at him full tilt, with a huge bamboo pole — which he'd supplied himself, he told me. There were people close enough to touch Joko as he ran forward, in fact there was quite a crowd involved. The demo took place when it was very dark, giving much different conditions for viewing than there would have been at ten in the morning, as YB had previously agreed to do. So, essentially, there is no evidence of anything supernatural available here. Most damning of all: the report that Joko Tri gave me regarding what he experienced, is congruent with another modus, one that is not at all new, strange, nor unusual. I'm gathering data on this right now, and I'll report on it. This modus was offered by several readers with experience in the subject"

There was obviously a preliminary test geni.

I said here that:" Although the purpose of this preliminary test may seem legitimate to some, it enables Randi to have incredible control over each situation. If he is ever confronted by someone who succeeds in the preliminary test, there seems to be no reason why he can't just dismiss it because it wasn't the "formal" test and give various reasons for why the claimant must be preliminarily tested again (the recent yellow bamboo case is something which is sure to meet this fate). Then after a long wait, if Randi isn't completely confident he knows how the claimant succeeded, he can simply use his skilled rhetoric to distort and deride the person involved, keeping him from ever taking another preliminary test let alone a "formal" one.

Isn't this the exact thing Randi is doing? What would stop him from doing it to anyone else who succeeds at the preliminary test?


amherst
 
amherst said:
There was obviously a preliminary test geni.

nope check through and you will find that this was not a formal plimierly test. On the plus side for YB they can apply without haveing ot wiat the normal year between tests. Perhaps this thime it could be done under better conditions.
 
LOL. Here we go again with the "evil skeptic conspiracy" crap.

Yellow Bamboo did NOT do a preliminary test. Some kid just decided to go and do a test himself and send the tape to Randi. It was a crappy tape, crappy conditions and the kids was very likely duped. No JREF representative was there for this "test".

You believers will just fabricate your own version to meet your end of discrediting JREF and the other "evil" skeptics. It won't work, the truth is plain and obvious and Randi's words are well documented regarding the yellow bamboo, both before and after this guy's crappy tape "test".

Spin your lies.. just remember, skeptics here have heard them all before.
 
Welcome Amherst:
Another way the lack of prior protocols works in Randi's favor is that it gives him the ability to avoid running any experiment who's results he might not be able to explain. For instance, lets say a parapsychologist decides he's tired of Randi and is going to apply for the challenge. Lets also say that he wants to run a long series of ganzfeld experiments. What if Randi isn't completely confident that he can find flaws in the experiment which will account for the possible positive results? Since both the claimant and Randi have to agree on the protocol, Randi can simply say he doesn't agree with the proposed test(the rules don't say he has to have a good reason for dismissing it). Now if the parapsychologist cries foul, there's nothing he can do about it, and Randi can go deride and smear him because he refused the challenge.

Excuse me, this is science, sloppy methods in the past are not a reason to win the test. The protocols are those of a standard science experiment.

What if all those runs of the Ganzfeld effect are experimenter error from a sloppy method?

If someone cries foul , it is because they have a very sloppy methodlogy, that is not Randi's fault is it?
 
Amherst,

I'm a bit confused by some of your argument. You wrote: "First, since there are no previously designed experiments, unlike in real science, there is nothing for anyone to judge or criticize."

And a few lines later, this: "Another thing which should cause worry for potential claimants is the fact that skeptics, which Randi is associated with, are to be the judge and jury of his tests."

Your reasoning here seems contradictory. Am I missing something?

Also, is the Blackmore quote exact? If, so it has too many errors as well.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Yellow Bamboo did NOT do a preliminary test. Some kid just decided to go and do a test himself and send the tape to Randi. It was a crappy tape, crappy conditions and the kids was very likely duped. No JREF representative was there for this "test".


In Randi's 7/04/03 commentary he wrote: "Volunteers needed! After months of back-and-forth, the "Yellow Bamboo" martial arts group has finally agreed to a protocol for a preliminary test re the JREF million-dollar prize. We're now looking for someone in their area to supervise that test. It would take place in Indonesia.........Anyone available?"

So they've agreed on a protocol for the preliminary test and now he's looking for a skeptic in the area to conduct it.

In Randi's 08/03/03 commentary he writes: "Surprise, surprise! A man who visited Bali to test the "Yellow Bamboo" group, who make supernatural claims that they can knock down an attacker just by shouting, has reported to me that he actually fell to the ground during the test! As soon as I get around to looking into this further, I'll give you a full report. This might actually be something….! "

So Randi found a volunter to conduct the preliminary test and the claimants succeeded in doing what was agreed upon that they should do.

Now AFTER the successful test had taken place, Randi's commentary of /10/03/03 says: "On August 11th, 2003, a Mr. Joko Tri Lestari, on the island of Java, wrote me volunteering to go to Bali and go through the Yellow Bamboo rigmarole that they'd put forth. I told him that though he appeared to have the right qualifications, and that I would normally accept him to do the preliminary test, I'd officially severed my connections with them. But, I told Joko, he was quite free to go there and see what happened, if they'd let him do so."

So even though he never bothered to mentioned this before the test took place, he now claims (obviously because the test was successful) that it wasn't a real test, and that he had severed his ties with the claimants before it had happened. Now if in fact he had severed his connections with the group, he would have stated as much before the test had taken place. Undoubtedly the yellow bamboo people were under the impression that they were taking Randi's test, but since they succeeded, all Randi had to do was dismiss it and claim it wasn't the real one. This is sure to be the fate of anyone who succeeds at Randi's "challenge".


amherst
 
amherst said:
When it comes to Randi's million dollars, skeptics and believers have one thing in common. Both usually agree that it is unwinnable. Skeptics think this is because paranormal phenomenon do not exist, believers think it is because Randi's challenge is flawed and biased. In this post I will attempt to illuminate the believers assumptions with some of my own observations.

Randi is a talented magician who also has considerable rhetorical skills. He is probably the worlds most well known debunker of the paranormal. His books, writings, and lectures have not only attempted to show that the paranormal doesn't exist, but have derided its proponents with a venom which many of the "softer" skeptics lack. The anger and derision which pervades his work has made for enjoyable reading and has surely increased Randi's popularity. Yet to many this angry zeal to debunk seems to have, among other things, caused the integrity of his work to suffer. What follows are a few examples culled from various sources:

"It is well known that the two SRI physicists issued a film which shows Geller successfully guessing the uppermost face of a die after it had been shaken in a closed box. Their Nature report describes these tests and Geller's phenomenal accuracy. The critical film was taken by Zev Pressman (an SRI staff photographer) and it shows Geller correctly making a guess. Randi claims that Targ and Puthoff lied when they stated that this film was taken during the actual tests. He further asserts that the film was a re-enactment. Basing his charges on information he claims came from Pressman himself, Randi maintains that the film was taken after the photographer had gone home and was merely staged. 'Pressman revealed that he was told Geller's eight successful throws [my emphasis] were done after he (Pressman) had gone home for the day', writes Randi, 'and that this film was a re-enactment of that supposed miracle'.
Dr Puthoff was thoroughly disgusted when I read this section of FlimFlam! to him. 'Not one millimeter of that film was a re-enactment' he told me. He also claimed that he had even procured an affidavit from Pressman certifying that the footage was filmed by him during the actual SRI tests. Dr Puthoff supplied me with this affidavit and urged me to get in touch with Mr Pressman, which is exactly what I did.
I spoke directly with Mr Pressman on 5 January 1981 and he was quite interested when I told him about Randi's book. He denied that he had spoken to the magician. When I read him the section of Randi's book dealing with his alleged 'expose' of the Targ-Puthoff film, he became very vexed. He firmly backed up the authenticity of the film, told me how he had taken it on the spot, and labelled Randi's allegation as a total fabrication. (His own descriptive language was a little more colorful!)
So just where did Randi come up with this nonsense about the SRI's Geller film? Randi does not specifically state that he personally spoke to Pressman, although he vaguely implies it. It seems instead that he procured this piece of misinformation from another SRI source, who was perhaps honestly mistaken about the film. Randi then repeated the error, never checked out his source, and used the error to make wild accusations against the SRI experimenters. The truly hilarious thing about this mess is that no film showing Geller making eight hits in a row was ever shot! Pressman only filmed one experiment, in which Geller is seen 'passing' - although guessing correctly - on the test. So Randi wasn't even able to describe the SRI film correctly, and he certainly never saw it."--- D.Scott Rogo Psychic Breakthroughs Today

"The January 2000 issue of Dog World magazine included an article on a possible sixth sense in dogs, which discussed some of my research. In this article Randi was quoted as saying that in relation to canine ESP, "We at the JREF [James Randi Educational Foundation] have tested these claims. They fail." No details were given of these tests.

I emailed James Randi to ask for details of this JREF research. He did not reply. He ignored a second request for information too.

I then asked members of the JREF Scientific Advisory Board to help me find out more about this claim. They did indeed help by advising Randi to reply. In an email sent on Februaury 6, 2000 he told me that the tests he referred to were not done at the JREF, but took place "years ago" and were "informal". They involved two dogs belonging to a friend of his that he observed over a two-week period. All records had been lost. He wrote: "I overstated my case for doubting the reality of dog ESP based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so."

Randi also claimed to have debunked one of my experiments with the dog Jaytee, a part of which was shown on television. Jaytee went to the window to wait for his owner when she set off to come home, but did not do so before she set off. In Dog World, Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see that the dog responded to every car that drove by, and to every person who walked by." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape."---Rupert Sheldrake www.sheldrake.org

"has to many errors to be recommended."----Susan Blackmore in her review of Randi's book The Supernatural A-Z

Apart from Randi's inaccuracies, some think he has also shown questionable ethics in his work. For instance, in the early 80's Randi hired two young magicians to pose as psychics and infiltrate a parapsychology laboratory. The mission was called Project Alpha. The two young men convinced some nonprofessional parapsychologists that they had genuine ability. However, many in the field were adamantly skeptical of the two and no work done with them ever appeared in any parapsychological journal. Despite this, Randi held a large contemptuous press conference about his "sociology experiment". In Parapsychology The Controversial Science, Richard Broughton says that "Afterwards some science commentators, notably William Broad of The New York Times, observed that had Randi been a psychologist conducting that experiment, his hoax would probably have landed him in trouble with the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association."

Because of these and other concerns, many people feel justifiably skeptical of Randi's ability to design an objective scientific test. If a parapsychologist had the same record of misstatements and deceit no skeptic would take any experiments that person was involved in seriously. One must also keep in mind that the validity of Randi's life's work is inextricably intertwined with the outcome of every challenge. If the subject's fail his challenge, Randi's work remains strong and validated in the eyes of the public as well as his own. Yet if just one person manages to somehow win the prize, the majority of Randi's hard work, beliefs, and ideas become invalid and he will be seen as ignorant of what he is supposed to be wise about. Needless to say, the effect would be devastating. Because of this, it seems to many that Randi has designed a rather clever testing system which enables him to "always have an out".

The challenge does not consist of just one pass or fail test. The rules state that:

"In all cases, applicant will be required to perform the preliminary test either before an appointed representative, if distance and time dictate that need, or in a location where a member of the JREF staff can attend. This preliminary test is to determine if the applicant is likely to perform as promised during a formal test. To date, no applicant has passed the preliminary test, and this has eliminated the need for formal testing in those cases"


Although the purpose of this preliminary test may seem legitimate to some, it enables Randi to have incredible control over each situation. If he is ever confronted by someone who succeeds in the preliminary test, there seems to be no reason why he can't just dismiss it because it wasn't the "formal" test and give various reasons for why the claimant must be preliminarily tested again (the recent yellow bamboo case is something which is sure to meet this fate). Then after a long wait, if Randi isn't completely confident he knows how the claimant succeeded, he can simply use his skilled rhetoric to distort and deride the person involved, keeping him from ever taking another preliminary test let alone a "formal" one. It seems that Randi has crafted a very secure safety net for himself, and any serious claimant should have cause for concern.

It is also relevant here to note that Randi has no prior protocols set up for testing the claimants. This works for his favor in a couple of ways. First, since there are no previously designed experiments, unlike in real science, there is nothing for anyone to judge or criticize. Any design flaws, which could be detrimental to paranormal effects, would most likely be unnoticed by a claimant with no scientific background. If parapsychologists were allowed to criticize and help design Randi's experiments, just like skeptics are encouraged to do for parapsychology, the challenge would be much more valid.

Another way the lack of prior protocols works in Randi's favor is that it gives him the ability to avoid running any experiment who's results he might not be able to explain. For instance, lets say a parapsychologist decides he's tired of Randi and is going to apply for the challenge. Lets also say that he wants to run a long series of ganzfeld experiments. What if Randi isn't completely confident that he can find flaws in the experiment which will account for the possible positive results? Since both the claimant and Randi have to agree on the protocol, Randi can simply say he doesn't agree with the proposed test(the rules don't say he has to have a good reason for dismissing it). Now if the parapsychologist cries foul, there's nothing he can do about it, and Randi can go deride and smear him because he refused the challenge.

Another thing which should cause worry for potential claimants is the fact that skeptics, which Randi is associated with, are to be the judge and jury of his tests. It is needless to say that many of these people have just as much vested interest as Randi does in seeing that each claim fails.


Finally, it is curious that Randi thinks himself such an expert at designing scientific experiments in the first place. The late Charles Honorton (pioneer of the ganzfeld experiments) in his essay Rhetoric Over Substance: The Impoverished State Of Skepticism, had this to say about Randi's competence in these matters: "...Randi's skill as a magician is well known; but despite well publicized claims to methodological expertise, his ability to design scientifically adequate psi experiments is not at all apparent from an examination of his public efforts. Serious methodological weaknesses and statistical errors occur, for example, in his book on testing ESP and in his televised tests of psychics (e.g. Morris, 1992: Rao, 1984)."

For over 2,500 sessions and methodological refinements which have met the criteria of parapsychologys most sophisticated critic, Ray Hyman, the ganzfeld experiments have sustained a hit rate 8.2% higher than the 25% expected by chance alone. The odds against chance of this happening are a million billion to one. If Randi thinks he can design a better experiment than Hyman can, then he is doing a great disservice to his field as well as to parapsychology by keeping quiet about it.

amherst

Excellent post! :)
 
Dancing David said:
Welcome Amherst:

Excuse me, this is science, sloppy methods in the past are not a reason to win the test. The protocols are those of a standard science experiment.

What if all those runs of the Ganzfeld effect are experimenter error from a sloppy method?

If someone cries foul , it is because they have a very sloppy methodlogy, that is not Randi's fault is it?


I never claimed or tried to imply in my post, that my above point would be relevant if Randi had some actual qualms with the ganzfeld methodology. If he did have some real testable concerns then it would be the job of the parapsychologist applying for his challenge to allay them. What I actually said was that if Randi couldn't come up with any problems with the methodology and knew that he would be at a loss to explain the very possible positive results, he could simple dismiss the proposed ganzfeld test for reasons he wouldn't have to specify. This is not science.


Amherst
 
Re: Re: Some Thoughts on Randi and His Challenge

kookbreaker said:
Apart from Randi's inaccuracies, some think he has also shown questionable ethics in his work. For instance, in the early 80's Randi hired two young magicians to pose as psychics and infiltrate a parapsychology laboratory. The mission was called Project Alpha. The two young men convinced some nonprofessional parapsychologists that they had genuine ability. However, many in the field were adamantly skeptical of the two and no work done with them ever appeared in any parapsychological journal. Despite this, Randi held a large contemptuous press conference about his "sociology experiment". In Parapsychology The Controversial Science, Richard Broughton says that "Afterwards some science commentators, notably William Broad of The New York Times, observed that had Randi been a psychologist conducting that experiment, his hoax would probably have landed him in trouble with the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association."

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Others felt that Randi's little project was the slap in the face that parapsychology needed to realise that it had to do some work.

How so when no actual professional parapsychologists were taken in?
 
amherst said:


Although there is no judging of whether or not something occurred or didn't, there is a judging (if the claimant succeeds) over whether the phenomenon was fraudulently produced or not. In the yellow bamboo commentary, Randi made it clear that in his judgement the effect was fraudulently produced, probably by a stun gun. Because Randi has judged the effect to be fraudulent, even though the test succeeded, Randi will not let the bamboo people advance to the "formal" testing phase.

:wow2: That is truly shocking! And it doesn't say much for the credibility and honestly of skeptics on here that they insist that Randi is always scrupulously fair :rolleyes:
 
geni said:
nope check through and you will find that this was not a formal plimierly test.

There's both formal and informal preliminary tests!?? :eek: Hell, how many tests is one required to pass??
 
Dancing David said:
Welcome Amherst:


Excuse me, this is science, sloppy methods in the past are not a reason to win the test. The protocols are those of a standard science experiment.



OK, give me a list of parapsychologists who subscribe to this view.

What if all those runs of the Ganzfeld effect are experimenter error from a sloppy method?

Hyman and Honorton agreed upon the method betweeen them for the autoganzfeld experiments.
 
I think that YB did not do the preliminary test properly, therefore it does not count. That is the reason for the discrepancies about the test.

Yes there was a test, but the test was not credible. Therefore, no advancement....
 

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