Some Questions And Statements I've Lined Out

[Johnny Pneumatic]

These are some questions I've found or came up with. More questions like these would be appreciated.

1. Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?
2. If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?
3. Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?
4. Why did god create anything at all? Artists are imperfect. If they were perfect they wouldn’t create art because they would be complete and have want for nothing.
5. If god isn’t made of anything how does it exist?
6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?
7. Jesus never married so he was never tempted to cheat on his wife, so he wasn’t tempted to do everything like the bible says.
8. Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.
9. Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.
10. Why doesn’t the universe “scream” that it was created by god?
11. If god made all animals to be vegetarian then why do lions have a digestive system for meat, mantises have spiny prey grabbing arms, sharks have serrated teeth, spiders build webs, ticks, tapeworms etc.
12. If the universe is only 6,000 years old then why is Earth’s moon so cratered? How has light had enough time to get here from stars billions of light-years away? How are there cave paintings 30,000 years old? How are there massive cave formations (they grow really slow)?
13. Why does god need to be praised?
14. Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.
15. Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.
16. Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?
17. Why does god have the abilities that “he” does? Why is god omnipotent, how is “he” able to do anything? How does god know everything, how is it possible to know everything?
18. Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.
19. Why is god almost always referred to as being male?
20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.
21. The bible is filled with magical stories that are as farfetched as The Lord of the Rings or Cinderella, yet you don’t call it a fairy tale.
22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!

 

[geni]

1-3 can be delt with by using the word allogy

3-6 can be delt with by pointing out they the is no reason to assume that we should be able to understand god

7 I suspect any form of "activerties" outside marriage would be classed aldutery (side note of there is the theory the jesus was married)

8 see 3-6

9 there would be no belivers though either see 3-6

10 ??? I can't get the question to make sense either from a scientifc or relgius point of veiw. Wow do you know it doesn't?

11&12 If you can get a striaght answer out of creationists on this one feel free to tell me

13-17 see 3-6

18 see 1-3

19 because refuring to god as "it" doesn't work that well

20-21 see 1-3

22 Most popular version of god are imposible to apply human judgements to.

 

[triadboy]

6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?

This question relates to: Why is there evil in the world if God is All-loving and good.

"Satan" did not exist to the 'Jews' before the Babylonian exile. Pre-exilic texts show evil happening because "an evil spirit came over the Lord".

Some history:

Aryans swept down from the European Steppes and split into two groups: One settled in India - assimilated with the indigenous population - and created Hinduism. The other settled in the area of Iran.

The group that settled in 'Iran' produced a 'prophet' named Zarathustra - who put forth some radical ideas.

Zarathustra was the first to acknowledge a "God of Evil" (Angra Mainyu) and a "God of Good" (Ahura Mazda). This concept was adopted by the Babylonians. This concept was readopted by the Jews in exile - and Satan was born.

"God" didn't create "Satan" - Man did.

 

[C.J.]

Don't really have any questions/statements to add, but I will make a comment. It seems like you'd either like to hear some answers from a religious person, or you'd like more "stumpers" to try and enlighten or debate with.

When you address these questions to people of faith, though, I don't know that you can expect a satisfying answer or response from many. As cool as it may be to consider the religious person recoiling in shock from your query, realizing that they've been so terribly, terribly wrong, and acknowledging that you've led them to the truth, it may not be likely. And it's unlikely because of faith.

(note the the rest of what follows is from a Christian perspective; the questions seem to be aimed at that, and it's my faith tradition anyway)

The faithful start out believing. Why did God create a Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil if he didn't want folks to eat of its fruit? Who knows? The faithful believe that it happened, though, either literally (real tree, real fruit, real teethmarks, etc.) or in a figurative sense (e.g.; a story to illustrate free will). A religious person doesn't need a rational answer in the logical or evidentiary sense; faith is enough.

Not being a Biblical literalist, that would be my response to many of the questions. When things seem nonsensical (e.g.; most of Revelations), I accept that there's some message in there, some way of understanding the text that helps me understand something about my life. A literalist, however, would have a much harder time of it. If they're unwilling to forego a literal interpretation of the Bible, then highlighting the inconsistencies of it may lead to some serious questioning.

Someone elsewhere on the R&P forum (can't recall where) had a link to a skeptic's annotated Bible that points out many of the contradictions in the text. You could probably find several things there that would be helpful in compiling your list.

C.J.

edited to correct spelling

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Re: Re: Some Questions And Statements I've Lined Out

"Satan" did not exist to the 'Jews' before the Babylonian exile. Pre-exilic texts show evil happening because "an evil spirit came over the Lord".

I had heard about that; thanks for filling in the details. Didn't they also steal the Babylonian creation myth? What was their creation myth before that one?

 

[Dancing David]

These are some questions I've found or came up with. More questions like these would be appreciated.

1. Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?
Because it is a parable about the incarnation of the immortal soul.
2. If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?
He was a mean bastard, it was YHVH who said that they shouldn't eat the tree, because then they would find out he wasn't EL
3. Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?Union rules and OHSA regulations. It is related to the seven lower spheres on the tree of life.
4. Why did god create anything at all? Artists are imperfect. If they were perfect they wouldn’t create art because they would be complete and have want for nothing.
EL is the creator and beyond human understanding.
5. If god isn’t made of anything how does it exist?
It doesn't.
6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?
Satan was more like god's prosecuting attorney until the Xians made the dualistic imperitive. The devil replaced YHVH as the creator of problems.
7. Jesus never married so he was never tempted to cheat on his wife, so he wasn’t tempted to do everything like the bible says.Some believe that Jesus was married or he couldn't have been a rabbi.
8. Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.
JHVH is kind of a nut case, there was the earlier destruction of the world by fire.
9. Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.
Cult programing , your are right, god if they exist would not care.
10. Why doesn’t the universe “scream” that it was created by god?
Because it was a natural birth.
11. If god made all animals to be vegetarian then why do lions have a digestive system for meat, mantises have spiny prey grabbing arms, sharks have serrated teeth, spiders build webs, ticks, tapeworms etc.
More misinterpretaion of a fable
12. If the universe is only 6,000 years old then why is Earth’s moon so cratered? How has light had enough time to get here from stars billions of light-years away? How are there cave paintings 30,000 years old? How are there massive cave formations (they grow really slow)?
Beacuse god made it that way just to test our faith.
13. Why does god need to be praised?
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
14. Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.
Because he was a magician and only did two shows a day.
15. Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.
Magicians never reveal thier secrets.
16. Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?
The kingdom of god is within.
17. Why does god have the abilities that “he” does? Why is god omnipotent, how is “he” able to do anything? How does god know everything, how is it possible to know everything?
Script approval
18. Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.
Or never happened.
19. Why is god almost always referred to as being male?
Patriarchal culture
20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.They were all shot by the large game hunters.
21. The bible is filled with magical stories that are as farfetched as The Lord of the Rings or Cinderella, yet you don’t call it a fairy tale.And it is more poorly written.
22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!

Blood soaked Sinai dust devil.
Gnostic heresy: Tyhe god of the OT is not the god of jesus.

 

[Bubbles]

I am a moderate to liberal Christian. I will offer answers from that perspective. These are not attempts to 'prove' that perspective.

1) Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?

First, I would say that the story is myth, not history (and, I think that, if we could read the garden story the way we read the Gilgamesh stories, we would see that they are very beatiful stories). Adam and Eve function as all of mankind. As to the doctrine of original sin, the idea isn't that mankind is punished, but rather that mankind is (depending on ones' perspective) injured or corrupted. It isn't that God is angry with us for some event in the deep past, but rather that we have become something not quite right because of it.

2) If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?

Again, read as myth, not history. We are free to make obviously bad choices. As to why, I can only say that the process (the choosing) is integral to the end (the choice).

3) Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?

Again, myth. The 'purpose' of the story is that it makes creation a purposeful act, that it makes humanity central (C. S. Lewis once suggested that every atom in the universe could say that everything else in the universe existed for its sake and be correct so long as it remembered that every other atom could say the same), and that it sanctifies the passage of time (the weekly cycle becomes something meaningful, and not just a pointless sequence). That the story dwells on Earth is no more strange than that wee should dwell on the history that is significant to us.

4) Why did god create anything at all? Artists are imperfect. If they were perfect they wouldn’t create art because they would be complete and have want for nothing.

I don't remember my philosophy well enough, but I remember one of the Greek philosophers saying that God, being complete, thinks only about himself. Personally, I think God comes off pretty pathetic in that view. I would answer that God is complete in himself. By the doctrine of the Trinity, this includes love; God is a perfect relationship of love. That love is not content to be hoerded, but that God desires to pour out hgis love still more. By this view, God created not because he sought completeness, but rather to express and share the fullness he possessed.

5) If god isn’t made of anything how does it exist?

That is only a problem if one begins with the assumption that non-corporeal beings cannot exist. However, other than the fact that we have no direct experience of such a being (and, by nature, we could not), there is really no good reason to make that assumption. The problem with assuming that God is made of something is that you then have something that, at least ontologically, pre-dates God. You solve one 'problem' by creating a BIG problem.

6) Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?

The post regarding the history of the doctrine of 'Satan' was accurate. Still, it ignores one important question: is the doctrine true? To point out the historical origin of an idea in no way refutes it. For the moment, let us assume the doctrine is true (I'm agnostic on the point). You are right to assume that God isn't 'caught by surprise' by anything. Let me ask a question that I have been pondering: if you were suddenly transported into the past and had the opportunity to kill a 6 year old Hitler, would you? When I first started asking myself that, I thought the answer was 'yes'. I'm not sure now. Is the process of choosing so important that we HAVE to let it happen. Do we have to let Hitler choose to be Hitler, even though it means letting him become Hitler.

7) Jesus never married so he was never tempted to cheat on his wife, so he wasn’t tempted to do everything like the bible says.

Let us accept the traditional view of a celebate Jesus. I think you are taking too narrow a view of the 'He was tempted in all ways as we are' passage. There is a distinction to be made between the nature of temptation and the specific form that it takes. I don't think we are required to believe that Jesus would have experienced every form any more than any of us does.

8) Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.

Yep, myth again. The key to understanding the story is to understand to 6-days creation story. According to that story, when God began creating, there was only water. God then created a really big bowl to seperate the waters above it from those below it. God then gathered the waters below it together and brought up dry land. The significance of it being a flood is that it was an undoing of creation. The other thing to understand is that it was not just man that fell, but all of creation with man. It is hard for us to think that way, I know.

9) Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.

I assume that you mean why doesn't God prove his existence. I'm not sure what the proof would be. If God isn't made of anything, then we can have no direct experience. Is there anything God could do to prove his existence that couldn't be argued to be a hoax or random occurance? If you mean the idea that all non-Christians are going to Hell, I would say that I don't believe it to be true. There are conservatives who say that, and there are liberals who say that all religions are equal, and simply alternative ways to the same end. I don't believe either to be true. I believe, as a Christian, that Jesus is the way to God, but I believe he is the way for Christians, Jews, muslims, atheists, and everyone else. I suspect that I haven't explained this well, but I don't want to post a friggin book here.

10) Why doesn’t the universe “scream” that it was created by god?

There are people who say that it does. I mean, the only way to solve that question is to have a universe that spontaniously came to be, and a created universe. Then you compare this one to the both of them. Unfortunately, this is the only universe that we have, so we're screwed.

11) If god made all animals to be vegetarian then why do lions have a digestive system for meat, mantises have spiny prey grabbing arms, sharks have serrated teeth, spiders build webs, ticks, tapeworms etc.

Again, we are dealing with myth. I believe that Thomas Aquinas said that to believe tha lions were once vegitarians does not mark good sense. The idea is that the competitive, 'your loss is my gain' world we see in human affairs and nature is in some way not meant to be. Somehow, one persons gain is supposed to be everyones gain. The story is an attempt (and a good one) to express that idea.

12. If the universe is only 6,000 years old then why is Earth’s moon so cratered? How has light had enough time to get here from stars billions of light-years away? How are there cave paintings 30,000 years old? How are there massive cave formations (they grow really slow)?

Myth, again. There really isn't anything to add here.

13. Why does god need to be praised?

Too often, people speak as if God has a kind of inferiority complex or liked being flattered. I would that praise and love are the natural response to goodness. If God is perfectly good, then praise and love are the appropriate response from us. To praise God is then to bring ourselves into conformity with reality. God tells us to praise him in same sense that my parents made me drink milk growing up.

14) Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.
15) Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.

I'm going to treat these two together. My first question is this: would Jesus have known these things. I do not think that evangelical Christianity takes the incarnation seriously enough. If, in Jesus, God was human (and not just pretending to be human), then God took upon himself liitation in knowledge. My second argument is that, while those are good things, they were not the good things that the incarnation was done to accomplish. Finally, I would argue that the acquisition of knowledge is one of the great duties and joys of humanity. To have that taken away from us would be a terrible thing.

16) Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?

It is difficult to speak of transcendant reality. The problem is that we think and speak spatially because that is how we experience reality. Heaven isn't someplace in the sense that you could get in a rocket and tracel far enough to get there. You might think of the question this way: Where is math? Does it have an existence outside our heads and books? Of course! Then WHERE is it? Well, it isn't any where (or, you could say) it is everywhere, in that sense. In the same way, God is fully present everywhere and nowhere.

17) Why does god have the abilities that “he” does? Why is god omnipotent, how is “he” able to do anything? How does god know everything, how is it possible to know everything?

The first response it simply to say that God is what God is. By virtue of being the foundational being, God can do in creation what God wills to do. The second is to say that God's mode of knowing is not like ours. We know things by observation and reflection. God knows them because they are real. Also, why would a God suffer the same limitations of knowledge that a human being does.

18) Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.

The myth thing, but I will say more. There are three 'fall' narratives in Genesis. Each has the pattern of sin, punishment, and gift. The first is the tree, the second the flood, and the third the tower. In the first, when the relationship (between God and man) is violated God responds with a 'GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!'. The clothing represents that even with thebroken relationship, God still cars for the humans. In the second story, the flood, God's response is more severe. Now, it is not enough that man (and all creation) be cast out, but now it must be destroyed. The preservation of life through Noah and the blessing given are the gift. In the third story (the tower of Babel), the curse is more subtle. The loss of relationship with God results in mankind losing harmony and cooperation. The gift here is something different. The gift now is Abraham. In other words, God now begins the process of redemption as the response to sin. Seen as a historical event, the flood didn't work. Seen in another light, it is the setting aside of bad options.

19. Why is god almost always referred to as being male?

Two reasons. The first is that, in a patriarchal society, one would naturally think of God being like the leader of the pack. Having said that, the Bible contains a number of uses of strong feminine imagery used for God. The second is that ourt language doesn't have a non-gender, personal pronoun. 'It' is too impersonal and there are places where "God" and 'Godself' just sound wretched. It would take a lot of typing, so I won't go into it here, but one of the beautiful aspects of the garden story addresses this question.

20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.

This is a mixture of myth, bad science (they thought the leviathan was out there somewhere), and what-not. It is only really a problem for a literalist.

21. The bible is filled with magical stories that are as farfetched as The Lord of the Rings or Cinderella, yet you don’t call it a fairy tale.

I'm not sure what 'fairy tale' means in a technical sense. A good amount of the Bible is myth and legend (and history of varying degrees of accuracy).

22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!

Well, I'm not your mom (that would be wrong on a lot of levels), but here goes. It is worth remembering that we are modern people reading very pre-modern stories here. I'm not saying that their ways were as good as ours. Genocide is bad. It was wrong in Germany in WWII and it was wrong in Palestine 3000 years ago (no, I don't want to get involved in a debate on the Israeli- Palestinian conflict). The slaughtering of innocent people was and is a terrible thing. It did happen, though, and the people who did it believed that they were doing God's will (I think we have some experience with that idea). The winners (then as now) wrote the history. I don't excuse the action, but from a Christian perspective it can be said that the evil was redeemed (good was brought out of it). As far as the religious practices, I don't want to get too bogged down here. It is a practise that is very difficult for us to understand, but I think one that was obvious and natural to them. It is even, seen in the right light) a beautiful practice (not, from tha lamb's perspective, I'll grant). The Bible is incredibly violent. Much of it is not an insight into the mind of God, but rather into the mind of man many, many years ago.

If you wanted those questions addressed, there you go. If you want me to elaborate or want to knock me on anything, just say so.

If you are looking for things to knock the Bible about, an easy one is that the two creation strories do not agree on whether man was created before or after the animals.

 

[triadboy]

Re: Re: Re: Some Questions And Statements I've Lined Out

I had heard about that; thanks for filling in the details. Didn't they also steal the Babylonian creation myth? What was their creation myth before that one?

Yes, they borrowed heavily from the Babylonian creation myth.

What ever creation myth they had was lost, but it may have been very "Babylonian" looking anyway - what with the influence the Babylonian culture had on the peoples of that area.

 

[Bubbles]

The similarities between the scriptural account of creation and the Babylonian account (the Enuma Elish) are really overstated.

They do have some similarities, but outside of some symbolism and basic cosmology, there isn't that much there. If anything, a comparison of the two stories shows how much the two cultures diverged in 1500 years or so.

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Bubbles, very interesting read. I have some problems with it though. Geneologys were traced to Noah's family and back to Eden. These storys were not myths to the people who "traced"(made up) the linages. I don't know if the author of The Epic of Gilgamesh thought he was recording history or just having fun wrighting.

 

[Bubbles]

You are right that, to the people writing the Bible stories they were not 'myths' in the modern sense of the word. I doubt that the tellers of the Gilgamesh stories were any different.

It bears pointing out that we aren't talking about these stories having authors in the modern sense of the word. They were stories told in communtites that grew and evolved (both the stories and the communities) over hundreds of years (evolved is, I think a good word, as modifications of the story that seem meaningful survive, and aspects of the story that do not die out). Once something has been in the story long enough that no one can remember it not beiong there it is 'true'.

I just don't think that 3000 years ago they would have made the distinctions that we make in regard to texts.

 

[Iacchus]

These are some questions I've found or came up with. More questions like these would be appreciated.

Well, let's see here ... Of course you don't seem to be asking for any possible answers but, that didn't seem to stop anybody else.

1. Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?

Well, if there were no people living in some remote place say like Australia (not withstanding the aboriginal people), and you introduced an original pair, don't you think the descendents would bear a resemblance to that original pair?

2. If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?

If you truly loved someone, wouldn't you want that love to be reciprocal?

3. Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?

I would suggest that 'six days' means something in the representative sense.

4. Why did god create anything at all? Artists are imperfect. If they were perfect they wouldn’t create art because they would be complete and have want for nothing.

To express their creative genius?

5. If god isn’t made of anything how does it exist?

What is energy made up of?

6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?

Because there would be 'no choice' in choosing God, for that's all there would be is God.

7. Jesus never married so he was never tempted to cheat on his wife, so he wasn’t tempted to do everything like the bible says.

Where does it say that?

8. Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.

A castastrophe is a castastrophe, no matter how you look at it.

9. Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.

Does life exist without diversity?

10. Why doesn’t the universe “scream” that it was created by god?

Because we're only looking for God's signature here.

11. If god made all animals to be vegetarian then why do lions have a digestive system for meat, mantises have spiny prey grabbing arms, sharks have serrated teeth, spiders build webs, ticks, tapeworms etc.

Vegetarians? Says who?

12. If the universe is only 6,000 years old then why is Earth’s moon so cratered? How has light had enough time to get here from stars billions of light-years away? How are there cave paintings 30,000 years old? How are there massive cave formations (they grow really slow)?

Please refer to answer 3.

13. Why does god need to be praised?

Ever hear of people getting a reward and praise for the work they do? Why do people applaud when we announce somebody in front of an audience?

14. Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.

Actually, I think the Jews had very strict sanitary laws at the time. You know, like the notion of 'Kosher?'

15. Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.

Considering the day and age, was it necessary?

16. Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?

God is 'the within,' as well as 'the without.' Heaven is within us, as well as beyond ...

17. Why does god have the abilities that “he” does? Why is god omnipotent, how is “he” able to do anything? How does god know everything, how is it possible to know everything?

Somebody or 'some thing' must know it. In order for existence to be, then every single last detail must be taken into account. Or else why call it the whole Universe? Obviously we can at least conceive of the notion can't we? Then why not some greater intelligence?

18. Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.

Sounds like some sort of disease or epidemic if you ask me. Why do we continue to have diseases?

19. Why is god almost always referred to as being male?

Why is God referred to as the bridegroom and the Church referred to as the bride?

20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.

Why does the Bible refer to anything which is supernatural?

21. The bible is filled with magical stories that are as farfetched as The Lord of the Rings or Cinderella, yet you don’t call it a fairy tale.

What, the notion that truth can possibly be stranger than fiction? How bizzare ...

22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!

Welcome to the human race!

 

[Riddick]

These are some questions I've found or came up with. More questions like these would be appreciated.

1. Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?
1. If Adam and Eve hadn't of made the mistake, one of us would have. You yourself, probably would march over to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat from it, if it had not been done before.

2. If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?
2) He put it there as a test of their obedience. We had the ability to find out if we were capable of God's knowledge of Good and Evil.

3. Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?
3) It looks like the plan worked fine, didn't it? Maybe he wanted to time it to rest on the 7th day, his day of rest.

4. Why did god create anything at all? Artists are imperfect. If they were perfect they wouldn’t create art because they would be complete and have want for nothing.
4) Why not? I look at a Van Gogh, and I think "that's near perfect." I'm not so sure your assumption about artists is a generally accepted rule.

5. If god isn’t made of anything how does it exist?
5) I imagine it would be difficult for anyone to answer this question. I imagine he's some sort of spirit being, but that's my guess. Christ is supposed to be in his earth form, Jesus, with the scars from the crucifiction for us to see.

6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?
6) The alternative is to remain by themselves for eternity. I imagine you might even go a little stir crazy by yourself for eternity. So what do you do? You create, even knowing of the failure beforehand. You'll also have a lot of other beings created --- humans. And some of those will follow you.

7. Jesus never married so he was never tempted to cheat on his wife, so he wasn’t tempted to do everything like the bible says.
7) Tough call. Cheating on your wife basically involves lusting. And you can masturbate while you lust.

8. Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.
8) To rid the earth of sin. You mean, just melt them down like the wicked witch? I'm not sure there is a pleasant way to do it. He was basically getting the message across that he wouldn't tolerate the amount of sin that was present.

9. Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.
9) If God appeared to you, a lot of you would deny your senses about God's existence. You're such devout atheists, you would deny everything conceivable pointing to God's existence.

10. Why doesn’t the universe “scream” that it was created by god?
10) It does to me. It obviously doesn't to you.

11. If god made all animals to be vegetarian then why do lions have a digestive system for meat, mantises have spiny prey grabbing arms, sharks have serrated teeth, spiders build webs, ticks, tapeworms etc.
11) Sometimes the big cats eat grass. Look at bears, they don't just eat meat. Their chewing system seems a little more meat oriented. The nature of the animals changed once sin entered the world. No longer could Adam and Eve pet the Lions and Tigers; they became wary of humans.

12. If the universe is only 6,000 years old then why is Earth’s moon so cratered? How has light had enough time to get here from stars billions of light-years away? How are there cave paintings 30,000 years old? How are there massive cave formations (they grow really slow)?
12) The earth has probably existed, without form, for a long time. Why are there man's footprints in the fossil record next to dinosaur tracks?

13. Why does god need to be praised?
13) Praise, I think, is more what someone wants to do. You want to praise Tiger Woods, that's fine. Praise his accomplishments. Praise his ability. You don't want to praise Tiger, I'm sure he's fine with that. He'll keep walking to the bank to make his deposits, same as always. Same thing with God.

14. Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.
14) Personally, I don't think they were ready for "gamma knives", "mri", or "chemotherapy." There was a bigger objective in his message: how to be saved. He did heal a lot of people while he was on earth, more than is mentioned in the gospels. However, you would never be satisified with the number of lives saved. He could have saved the entire planet --- yet, that would not suffice for you. And it's plain it's not enough for you now, even if it did happen.

15. Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.
15) He could have built them an atom bomb from dirt. Maybe he had different priorities. Apparently, he had other objectives in mind for his visit.

16. Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?
16) Technically, heaven doesn't exist yet. But he is out there, somewhere. Jesus is supposed to have retained his form as he was on earth. The Father, we don't know his form; same for the Holy Spirit (spirit, most likely).

17. Why does god have the abilities that “he” does? Why is god omnipotent, how is “he” able to do anything? How does god know everything, how is it possible to know everything?
17) Supposedly, that's what the name "God" empowers you to. If you're "God" your power is basically limitless. He knows your thoughts, he knows your next move, he can see you anywhere, anytime. I guess it's part of the "God" power thing.

18. Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.
18) You can ask God about that yourself when you see him. We know that he can change his mind about what he does. He first would not allow divorce, but he later changed his mind and allowed divorce since it was such a common place occurence among his followers.

19. Why is god almost always referred to as being male?
19) Beats me.

20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.
20) Yes, but I think the bible talks about them literally.

21. The bible is filled with magical stories that are as farfetched as The Lord of the Rings or Cinderella, yet you don’t call it a fairy tale.
21) That's right. Anytime you put "God" into the equation, you can expect the unusual.

22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!
22) Blah blah blah. They've had experiences in life not so different from other people. I've rung birds necks, it's the human thing to do after you've shot them and they're flopping around aimlessly. What do you think they do to those chickens you eat? The cows? The shoes you're wearing? That cow didn't just lay down and die to give you that leather. They shoot them, in the head. Probably, some of the stuff God did was tame compared to what people do these days. How about O.J.?

 

[triadboy]

Re: Re: Some Questions And Statements I've Lined Out

That's right. Anytime you put "God" into the equation, you can expect the unusual.

WE AGREE!!

 

[Lord Emsworth]

1. Why do we have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s sin? Would it be fair for you to spend your whole life in jail because twenty generations ago your ancestor killed someone?



Because God is a loving and forgiving God. But he is also just.



2. If god didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then why did it create it?



God is omniscient. But who the hell could've foreseen that Adam and Eve couldn't judge how to be a good creation and obey, and instead fell prey to evil!



3. Why did god take six days to create everything? Doing it all at once to hard? It spent most of its time working on life forms on a tiny speck of rock, but created the billions of galaxies all at once?




There aren't billions of galaxies. The stars which you see when you look up to heaven are actually attached to a solid firmament. So are the sun and the moon. And above this firmament there is water.



6. Why did god create Satan if “he” knew (because of all knowingness) how Satan would be?



God is omniscient. But who the hell could've foreseen that Lucifer would turn out to be such a nutcase.



8. Why did god flood the earth to kill all the sinners? Couldn’t god in “his” omnipotence just cause the chemical bonds (between all the atoms that made the sinners) to break? No animals had to die. No babies had to drown.



God flooded the earth in order to get rid of sin. But who he hell could've foreseen that even such drastic measures wouldn't suffice!



9. Why do we have to have faith that god exists? If god would just prove it exists there would be no atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Shintoists etc.



You first have to believe and have to have faith and then you will receive proof of His existence. If you don't receive proof your faith and belief aren't true faith and belief.

And as an aside, there are no Atheists, since all humans know in their hearts that God exists. Atheists are only in denial.



14. Why didn’t Jesus spread medical knowledge? He could have told them about pathogens and how to treat disease. He could have explained sanitation. I wonder how many lives that would have saved.



Medical knowledge for what? If there wouldn't be that much sin in this world people would probably reach ages of about 900 years or so. Medical knowledge, bah.

And btw once we get to heaven our corrupted, earthly bodies will be exchange for new, perfect ones.



15. Why didn’t Jesus spread knowledge of all the sciences? He could have described how vast the universe is, showed them that the Earth isn’t the center, explained basic physics, atoms and Quantum Mechanics, gravity, Electromagnetic Radiation, chemistry, the existence of cells and how they work etc. etc.



We are told everything that we need to know. See for example Genesis for a very accurate description of the earth, but I mentioned that already. From other books of the bible we learn that the circle of the earth rests on pillars and is suspended in space.

What do you want more?



16. Some people say god is in heaven. Theologians say god is everywhere or outside of the universe/time. Which is it? Wouldn’t god have to be made of matter for “him” to be anywhere? Where is heaven? What is “outside” the universe?



If you look up you are looking towards heaven. Above the solid firmament there is the place where the throne of God is.



18. Sin came right back, so The Flood was pointless.



See how much we are in need of Jesus' atoning sacrifice?



20. The bible mentions some mythological creatures such as Leviathan, dragons, fiery flying serpents, talking snake and cockatrices.



Proof that evolutionism is a false religion. Dinosaurs and humas did live side by side.



22. Mom, you say you hate war and violence; the bible is so gory that it makes Hong Kong action films look like the Barney the Purple Dinosaur show. Pregnant women were run through with swords, babies murdered, virgins were taken to be raped. (all by the “good guys”) What is sickening is that unlike The Flood, these things happened. Birds heads were rung off, goats and sheep were gored then burned, animals where killed so their guts could be held in the air. What a vain sadistic god!



Those people who were killed wouldn't have repented anyway. Good riddance.





And the most ironic part: j/k

 

[Bubbles]

I haven't been here long, so forgive me if I am asking something that everyone else already knows:

I assume that Riddick isn't playing 'stupid fundie', but that, for better or worse, he believes what he is saying (unless he stays in character in all the posts of his I've seen).

Lord Emsworth, on the other hand, I am unfamiliar with. Are we dealing with geniune belief or 'stupid fundie' game?

To put some actual content in this post, if the doctrine of creation from nothing holds true, then we should stop talking about God foreseeing things. There would then be two classes of things that exist: God and things made by God. Time, I would assert, is not God (though I don't know how I would argue this point) and therefore it is, like matter and volume, a thing made by God. If it is made by God, is it reasonable to believe that God is bound within it? Would it not be far more reasonable for God to transcend time as it is asserted that God transcends space?

Granted, it is difficult to imagine something transcending time as it is difficult to imagine something transcending space. When we try to speak of it, we end up using conceots like God 'foresees' and God being in 'heaven'. Each statement is, in some ways useful and even truthful, but I do not think that either statement, taken literally, is accurate.

 

[triadboy]

Lord Emsworth, on the other hand, I am unfamiliar with. Are we dealing with geniune belief or 'stupid fundie' game?

Lord Emsworth was speaking as if a fundy was answering.

 

[Pantastic]

So if God is all seeing and all knowing, then when he put the tree of knowledge in the garden, he knew adam and eve would eat from it. He didn't just suspect, or wonder, he knew . BEcause he is God and he know everything. How is that a test? How is that anything other than pure sadistic glee at knowing A&E would sin so he could kick them out the garden and condemn them and their descendents forever?
If God does exist, he is therefore a cruel, sadistic, horrid creature who creates man, knowing what crimes he will commit, and punishing him for them anyway. If God creates you knowing every act you will ever perform, you have no choice and no free will and anything he does to punish/reward you is simply at a whim.

Im not sure why I bother to post, because it's already been demonstrated right here how deeply self deluded believers are, and no amount of logic or evidence will convince them otherwise.

 

[triadboy]

So if God is all seeing and all knowing, then when he put the tree of knowledge in the garden, he knew adam and eve would eat from it. He didn't just suspect, or wonder, he knew . BEcause he is God and he know everything. How is that a test? How is that anything other than pure sadistic glee at knowing A&E would sin so he could kick them out the garden and condemn them and their descendents forever?
If God does exist, he is therefore a cruel, sadistic, horrid creature who creates man, knowing what crimes he will commit, and punishing him for them anyway. If God creates you knowing every act you will ever perform, you have no choice and no free will and anything he does to punish/reward you is simply at a whim.

Im not sure why I bother to post, because it's already been demonstrated right here how deeply self deluded believers are, and no amount of logic or evidence will convince them otherwise.

I want to make sure you understand my feeling that there never was a Garden of Eden, Yahweh, Adam, Eve, Noah, etc.

[Sometimes when I read a post I don't know if the poster believes in God and is struggling to understand the mess He made - or - the poster doesn't believe in god and is referring ONLY to the text of the bible]

Anyway you missed one - God kept hardening the Pharoahs heart before each plague - that's whack. (as the kids say nowadays)

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

To put some actual content in this post, if the doctrine of creation from nothing holds true, then we should stop talking about God foreseeing things.

What? If god doesn't know what is going to happen until it has already happened then how is that all knowing?

1. If Adam and Eve hadn't of made the mistake, one of us would have. You yourself, probably would march over to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat from it, if it had not been done before.-Riddick

I'm glad I don't have to live with your justice. I can't remember where the verse is in your religious text, but it says god won't punish one for the crimes of another. Another thing I wonder is
why god didn't want them to know the difference between good and evil.