Somalian Pirates protecting the environment?

[Random]

OK, not sure if this aspect of the Somalian piracy issue has been discussed here, but I found some articles and thought I would put them here for some kind of response.

The short version is that when the Somalian Government collapsed in 1991, they effectively lost any ability to protect their costal waters. Suddenly, ships from foreign nations came in and began heavily overfishing and dumping toxic and nuclear waste in the waters off the coast. Fishing got harder for people and Somalians began to sicken and die from pollutants.

Somalians living near the coast said, "(rule 8) this. We might not have a government, but we have boats and we have guns." And thus an impromptu coast guard was formed, which seems to have morphed into our current pirate threat.

Articles here, here, and here.

 

[theprestige]

Ah, yes: The classic "two wrongs make a right" scenario.

I'm pretty sure that if the Somali pirates stuck to intercepting illegal dumpers and fishers, nobody would complain much at all. It's not like anybody's going to go to the UN or the US Navy and say, "they're not letting us dump hazardous materials along their coastline!".

Instead, though, what we keep hearing are stories about cargo ships intercepted on their way through the region, or private sailboats whose innocent passengers are kidnapped and held for ransom.

If Somali pirates and their advocates want credit for being righteous freedom fighters, they need to spend a lot more time on the righteous freedom-fighting part of their agenda, and a lot less time hijacking foreign aid shipments.

 

[dudalb]

Please explain why holding foreign sailors for ransom helps the enviorment.
Just another attempt to glorify the pirates by those who will side with any anti establishment terrorist group.

 

[malcontentx]

It's more than just saving the environment

In 1991 when the foreign ships started dumping their containers of hospital and chemical waste; they also began looting their source of food and income; which was tuna and shellfish. Concerned citizens went to the UN and were ignored. After that they began going out to the ships to try stop it themselves. They considered themselves something like coastguards patrolling. They didn't get very far with that and then they recruited street militias and began taxing the ships. Over time, yes, what started out to be concerned citizens trying to stop the looting and polluting of their waters has turned in to piracy. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'd say that what started it was greedy corporations who wanted to pay 8.00 a ton to import their toxic waste to Somalia rather than foot the bill to do it right in Europe at the price of $1000.00 per ton. The two companies that had contracts with the ex president of Somalia were Progresso and Archair. After the 2005 tsunami, literally tons of toxic waste containers that were broke open were found on the beaches of Somalia. You can google photos of this.

What would you do if you were starving or sick and the source of your misery was the foreign fishing boats and the cargo ships dumping nuclear waste in the seas that once provided your health and wealth?! Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

 

[gdnp]

What would you do if you were starving or sick and the source of your misery was the foreign fishing boats and the cargo ships dumping nuclear waste in the seas that once provided your health and wealth?! Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

I'd confiscate the foreign fishing boats in my territorial waters and deport the crews. I would not attack unrelated merchant vessels hundreds of miles off my coast that were doing me no harm. Or I would form a government and ask the UN to come in and reestablish law and order, and drive out the warlords that had destroyed my country and were the real source of my problems.

 

[Lonewulf]

Somalian Pirates protecting the environment?

Yes.

 

[maxpower1227]

I love the completely arbitrary (and out of order) x-axis on that graph.

 

[Alt+F4]

What would you do if you were starving or sick and the source of your misery was the foreign fishing boats and the cargo ships dumping nuclear waste in the seas that once provided your health and wealth?! Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

I'd date a pirate, of course!

“All you need is three guys and a little boat, and the next day you’re millionaires,” said Abdullahi Omar Qawden, a former captain in Somalia’s long-defunct navy.

People in Garoowe, a town south of Boosaaso, describe a certain high-rolling pirate swagger. Flush with cash, the pirates drive the biggest cars, run many of the town’s businesses — like hotels — and throw the best parties, residents say. Fatuma Abdul Kadir said she went to a pirate wedding in July that lasted two days, with nonstop dancing and goat meat, and a band flown in from neighboring Djibouti.

“It was wonderful,” said Ms. Fatuma, 21. “I’m now dating a pirate.”

Linky:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/africa/31pirates.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=somalia%20pirates&st=cse

 

[Foolmewunz]

In 1991 when the foreign ships started dumping their containers of hospital and chemical waste; they also began looting their source of food and income; which was tuna and shellfish. Concerned citizens went to the UN and were ignored. After that they began going out to the ships to try stop it themselves. They considered themselves something like coastguards patrolling. They didn't get very far with that and then they recruited street militias and began taxing the ships. Over time, yes, what started out to be concerned citizens trying to stop the looting and polluting of their waters has turned in to piracy. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'd say that what started it was greedy corporations who wanted to pay 8.00 a ton to import their toxic waste to Somalia rather than foot the bill to do it right in Europe at the price of $1000.00 per ton. The two companies that had contracts with the ex president of Somalia were Progresso and Archair. After the 2005 tsunami, literally tons of toxic waste containers that were broke open were found on the beaches of Somalia. You can google photos of this.

What would you do if you were starving or sick and the source of your misery was the foreign fishing boats and the cargo ships dumping nuclear waste in the seas that once provided your health and wealth?! Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

Well, of course,... just like the people at Love Canal. Toxic waste, factories shut down, people getting sick... pretty much the same as Somalia. And they did the same thing. They took to the trees and started robbing stage coaches and Maid Marian and Friar Tuck would sneak them word on when the sheriff was going to be sending money through the forrest.

 

[dudalb]

I'd confiscate the foreign fishing boats in my territorial waters and deport the crews. I would not attack unrelated merchant vessels hundreds of miles off my coast that were doing me no harm. Or I would form a government and ask the UN to come in and reestablish law and order, and drive out the warlords that had destroyed my country and were the real source of my problems.

Not to mention you would not hold crews for ransom and pocket the proceeds.

 

[fuelair]

In 1991 when the foreign ships started dumping their containers of hospital and chemical waste; they also began looting their source of food and income; which was tuna and shellfish. Concerned citizens went to the UN and were ignored. After that they began going out to the ships to try stop it themselves. They considered themselves something like coastguards patrolling. They didn't get very far with that and then they recruited street militias and began taxing the ships. Over time, yes, what started out to be concerned citizens trying to stop the looting and polluting of their waters has turned in to piracy. I'm not condoning piracy, but I'd say that what started it was greedy corporations who wanted to pay 8.00 a ton to import their toxic waste to Somalia rather than foot the bill to do it right in Europe at the price of $1000.00 per ton. The two companies that had contracts with the ex president of Somalia were Progresso and Archair. After the 2005 tsunami, literally tons of toxic waste containers that were broke open were found on the beaches of Somalia. You can google photos of this.

What would you do if you were starving or sick and the source of your misery was the foreign fishing boats and the cargo ships dumping nuclear waste in the seas that once provided your health and wealth?! Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

No argument - like others- with that, if true. Does not matter in the slightest when we are discussing piracy, kidnapping, etc.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Yes.

[qimg]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1125/globalwarmingfpf.jpg[/qimg]

Thread won, but people, for some reason, kept posting.

To the OP:

Nope. Kidnapping does not protect the environment. The profit motive is the ransom payment, not the fish profits.

DR

 

[Ranb]

Remember, we are not talking about America but a country with no law and order to call on to right these kinds of wrongs. Huh? What would you do?

I guess if I was an impoverished fisherman living in Somalia, I would kidnap your parents for ransom and justify it by saying some other people they have no connection with are polluting my ocean and stealing my fish. Tell me I am doing the right thing.

I'm not a filthy scumbag pirate, so I will not do that.

Ranb

 

[Travis]

What kind of fractured logic justifies hijacking container cargo ships hundreds of miles out to sea with a sob story about illegal waste dumping? I mean this illegal dumping, if true, is terrible but how does that have anything to do with what the pirates are doing?