So I'm watching a demon being exorcised....

Ralph

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I sitting down to eat some lunch and turn the tube on. I'm channel flipping & I see this guy putting a Vulcan death grip
around some not too bright looking woman's head and screaming
"JAY-ZUS"........(how come these guys all say "JAY-ZUS" instead of "Jesus")..........

After a few minutes of this it becomes apparent that the guy's performing an exorcism. What was disturbing was the show was about "peoples occupations"......Like Dr, lawyer, fireman......EXORCIST!!!!--- like this is some kind of valid way to make a living....

Anyway--after the guy got rid of the demon---it led into something about him wanting to start a school to teach OTHER people how to be exorcists......(Franchises maybe---McExorcisms)..
and that was followed by the usual begging for money.

Judging from the look on the audience's faces---he made a killing..

What really struck me though...was how something like this
which used to be limited to horror movies,religious nuts, and wackos.....has now become almost "mainstream".

The media presents things like this along with psychics and other assorted flakes like it's real and the oddball is the sceptic who questions it....



Fast forward a few hours.......Now I'm watching "The Wizard of OZ"...............the scene where Frank Morgan does that little cold reading thing with Dorothy.

The film was made in 1939. It's my impression that back then---the media viewed things like "psychic abilities" as a fairy tale---something that carny barkers practiced on the rubes.

It was NOT something any who graduated from high school or better gave any credence too..

It was NOT taught at universities and other institutions of higher learning..


Are we going backwards?????

Is woo-wooism really more prevalent today than it was 60 years ago despite all the progress we've made in areas of science & medicine???


I've lived in the same town for almost 20 years.
20 years ago I think there might have been ONE fortune teller in town.....in some seedy looking building in the low-rent part of town.

Today I head down the main drag & there's a half dozen different "psychic readers" and "holistic healers" and what-not just on one street.

Are we heading in the wrong direction----or does it just seem that way because of media disortion??.....
 
Every so often in American history, the whole country experiences a great "re-Awakening" (1950s is the most notable example in recent times). All over the world, you can find examples of periods of time punctuated by religious revival, they just happen to be more common in America.
 
With the decline of the great religions peope transfer there belief else where. One there were churches now there are "healing huts". It's the good old need to belive kicking in.
 
In fact, the dispersal of believers from organized religion to disorganized religion may be the first step towards overcoming the debilitating need for "something more". So, perhaps it's a good sign.
 
Keneke said:
In fact, the dispersal of believers from organized religion to disorganized religion may be the first step towards overcoming the debilitating need for "something more". So, perhaps it's a good sign.
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On the contrary, it makes them suckers for every crystal gazing woo-woo and crackpot theory of life that ever was.

The cure for organized religion is organized non-religion. No that doesn't mean regimented or "party line", just organized in the sense of following logic.
 
I agree about the total reversal of religion as an end result, but how do you propose that we go from a to b? Can the world as a whole (not just individual people, but the world) go from a to b instantaneously? I'd like that to happen, but it will not.

Now then, Randi mentioned that organized religion has a sort of immunity from criticism in our culture. Is it not a good sign that people's beliefs are moving to a more easily assaulted positon? It would be better if they abandoned their need altogether, and I also would not advocate pointing people to new age nonsense just to get them away from organized religion, but I find this move a good sign for skepticism, though it may bring harm.

Think of it like this: The Germans have inexplicably left their bunkers and are walking around aimlessly on Normandy beach. ;)
 
I watched a programme on TV a few months ago where they sought to explain the rise of superstition in the West of late. A theory they proposed goes as follows:

About 150 years ago, a reasonably well educated individual could hope to understand the operation of all the tools and machines around them. The scientific theories of the day were relatively comprehensible to the normal, but educated human mind.

Nowadays, we are surrounded by impossibly complex machines (I'm using one now) whose underlying principles are well beyond what an educated layperson can be expected to understand. The latest scientific theories are either incredibly complex, counter intuitive, require a deep understanding of the subject material or a combination of the three.

Scientific debate often takes place in the public domain (global warming, BSE, AIDS, vaccination) and it's "clear" to the layperson that scientists are "wrong" at least part of the time.

The impressions is therefore given that we are surrounded by unknowably complex things which are explained by scientists who are "wrong most of the time". People cannot make up their own minds objectively because the situation is too complex.

We therefore have to go on gut feel about whether something is good or bad. This is the start of superstition.
 
The problem is regarding science as the modern substitute for religion. It is not that at all.

The modern substitute for religion is random woo-wooism. Sometimes this blossoms into a new religion, such as Scientology or Raelianism.

On an individual level, some of the new cults are just as violent as the worst of the old bad ones.

For example, that outfit in Japan that tried to gas the subway.

Your "Germans" are only re-grouping.
 
Keneke said:
I agree about the total reversal of religion as an end result, but how do you propose that we go from a to b? Can the world as a whole (not just individual people, but the world) go from a to b instantaneously?
Click to expand...

Reminds me of Sting's best line: "They go crazy in congregations; they only get better one by one."

Quinn
 
These exorcists are missing out on a great opportunity. They should combine exorcism with music and open up Jazzorcise centers all over the U.S., where people can get their demons removed quickly and lose weight too!
 
I've lived in the same town for almost 20 years.
20 years ago I think there might have been ONE fortune teller in town.....in some seedy looking building in the low-rent part of town.

Today I head down the main drag & there's a half dozen different "psychic readers" and "holistic healers" and what-not just on one street.

Are we heading in the wrong direction----or does it just seem that way because of media disortion??.....
Click to expand...


I lived in Hyannis, Cape Cod, close to 33 years and I noticed Main Street is now loaded with Holistic Healers and Psychic Readers. One of the reasons; the population has increased. Another; the number of foreign cultures that have moved to the area for the summer and permanently.

But in general, I think people know it’s just silly, and use them for entertainment.
 
I work at Washington University, a major (top ten...) academic institution.
Last week, the student newspaper ran an article about how there was much more "faith-based" activity among the students in the last couple of years.

We also hosted a speech by some Rabbi entitled "Why God Exists"; with the subtitle "atheism refuted!"

I had to wonder if the guy with the beard was going to put in an appearance....And what tired old arguments this guy was going to trot out.

Unfortunately, we got involved arresting a bike thief, and I couldn't check it out.
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
The problem is regarding science as the modern substitute for religion. It is not that at all.

The modern substitute for religion is random woo-wooism. Sometimes this blossoms into a new religion, such as Scientology or Raelianism.

On an individual level, some of the new cults are just as violent as the worst of the old bad ones.

For example, that outfit in Japan that tried to gas the subway.

Your "Germans" are only re-grouping.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is an accurate portrayal of the metaphor. What I am saying is that religion has power through acceptibility based upon age. The average American, who might start to become a skeptic, wouldn't say anything bad about their local church, but they'd say a few choice words about some strange cult. Why?

Because cults are too new, and new age beliefs are more easily assaulted.

So then, why would "Germans" re-group elsewhere when they were perfectly safe in their huge, heavily armored bunker? I can't think an appropriate metaphor for why, but that's more or less what they have done.
 
Re: Re: So I'm watching a demon being exorcised....

Producer said:



I lived in Hyannis, Cape Cod, close to 33 years and I noticed Main Street is now loaded with Holistic Healers and Psychic Readers. One of the reasons; the population has increased. Another; the number of foreign cultures that have moved to the area for the summer and permanently.

But in general, I think people know it’s just silly, and use them for entertainment.
Click to expand...

I lived in West Yarmouth in the early 80's.......the Cape always attracted oddballs (like me)...

I still go there every year----my wife & I rent out a house in Truro after Labor day for a week.

I think Provincetown has more woo-woos per square foot than any other city/town on the East coast.........................Ralph
 
Because cults are too new, and new age beliefs are more easily assaulted.
Click to expand...
Many of them have charismatic leaders and while the beliefs themselves can easily be assaulted, people have a tendancy to get far more indignant and stubborn about seeing their chosen leaders get assaulted.
 
Re: Re: Re: So I'm watching a demon being exorcised....

Ralph said:


I lived in West Yarmouth in the early 80's.......the Cape always attracted oddballs (like me)...

I still go there every year----my wife & I rent out a house in Truro after Labor day for a week.

I think Provincetown has more woo-woos per square foot than any other city/town on the East coast.........................Ralph
Click to expand...

Punchline "kick your hat to Truro" (jk) Provincetown would make a good place for TAMIII. it would have to be a summer convention though. Very beautifull area.
 
I think that it is also a question of affluence. In the 50's you were dealing with people with a depression era mentality and their children. Today, people don;'t have those recollections and have greater disposable income.
 
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